UPDATE: I'm glad that this entry has, uh, taken a life of its own with continued interest, but let me please apologize in advance that I will not offer any legal advice or personal counseling. The reasons are as follows:
1. I am not a lawyer.
2. Different jurisdictions have different municipal and state laws, not to mention different court procedures.
3. Sometimes, I just don't have all the answers.
What can I say, except that I'm sorry if you find yourself in the misfortune of getting a ticket. Believe me, it's not the end of the world, and hopefully, the entry below will of some help to you.
Please take care, and above all, please remember that not all cops trip out on power and doughnuts. There are good cops out there too, and in the end, we're all just human beings.
---
This topic is so controversial that I've had second and third thoughts about actually writing it. However, as polarizing as it may be, I think it's very important to share this information with as many people as I can.
Many of you may recall that I was once a police officer. It was one of the most interesting and informative times of my life. However, I am also glad to be out of it. The short, short version as to why is, "Overworked, overstressed, and underpaid."
Anyways, one of the most talked about topics would seem to be traffic tickets. I suppose it's because it's one that touches people with law enforcement the most often. If you would like to know the law enforcement side of the story, read on. However, I must warn you that you may not like what you're about to read.
MYTH #1: THERE IS A QUOTA
Why don't we just go ahead and start things off with a bang? 
Although I obviously can't speak for all Police departments-- or even my own except for what I've personally experienced-- we simply don't have a quota.
What we do have, however, is monthly performance evaluations. There, they look at your overall performance for the entire month. This includes the number of arrests you've made, the number of reports you've written, the number of calls you've handled... and yes, even the number of tickets you've written.
However, the purpose of performance evaluations is to simply make sure that you're not actually asleep somewhere or spending all your time in some doughnut shop. (And by the way, that's another stereotype about cops, but I'll leave that for some other time).
In fact, some officers barely write any tickets because they've been working on something more urgent, and end up with great evaluations.
MYTH #2: IT IS A REVENUE GENERATOR
Well, I take it back. It is and yet it isn't. Yeah, it makes money for the city, but it targets only offenders AND more likely than not, the money is just barely enough to defray the cost of our overburdened court system.
Which almost always comes to this....
MYTH #3: THE SPEED LIMIT IS LOWERED ON PURPOSE TO FLEECE THE PUBLIC
Honestly, I can't even begin to fathom why people would think this. I don't know about city management, but for law enforcement anyway, we don't have any conspiracy with the city to artificially lower speed limits just so the city can make money.
What we do have, however, is a small request form we can fill out for DOT to flag a certain area as a "trouble spot". Typically, that's stapled right along our traffic accident reports so they can see why we're making such a request.
Once the request is sent to DOT, I've been told that they are the ones who decide how to troubleshoot the trouble spot. Sometimes, they will (eventually) add stop signs or even traffic lights. Other times, you guessed it, they will lower the speed limit.
But as you can see, it's not done because the city needs more money.
MYTH #4: COPS ON POWER TRIPS SET SPEED TRAPS TO HARRASS THE PUBLIC
It's true that, sometimes, police officers will take the initiative to set up their own speed traps. Especially on a slow night. However, this is typically our way of hanging out with each other or catching up on reports while still doing our job. It actually has nothing to do with wanting to harrass the public.
Most cops are thrill-seekers, and as a rule, the last thing we want to do is to sit still somewhere, doing nothing, while waiting for someone to run a red light. Oh sure, some cops love doing traffic, but for the most part, it's just plain tedium.
MYTH #5: HAHA THE POLICE IS STUPID IF THEY THINK WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEIR SPEED TRAPS
Now here's another line of thought that I just can't fathom. Yes, of course we know you know about our speed traps. We're jaded, not stupid. But then, that's the whole purpose of speed traps. We don't really want to catch you and ticket you so much as we want you to slow down and obey the traffic rules.
In fact, speed traps and road blocks are typically formed because someone has made a specific complaint to the Police department that we're not doing enough to enforce the law there. I remember this one time, we had to go and set up a speed trap literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF someone's house, simply because this one individual made so much fuss about how the Police is not doing their job keeping their neighborhood safe from speeders. And of course, the few people we've ticketed speeding by would complain about how we're just a bunch of stupid, bored cops who have nothing better to do but to set up a speed trap in a quiet little neighborhood when we should be doing something more important like catching terrorists or bank robbers like they have already paid us to do with their tax money. You can tell I loved this job. And yes, we get complaints about the needing to catch speeders all the time. For some reason, you just don't hear about that as often.
So by all means, spread the word regarding speed traps. But please don't laugh at us as though we don't know you know the speed trap is there.
Well, that's enough rants er I mean myths for now. And because this is a Personal Finance blog, now I'm actually going to share tips on how to minimize the cost of your tickets!
Obey the law! Yes, no matter how much a (honest) cop wants to get you, if you obey the traffic laws, there's nothing we can do to you. This is, by far, the best advice I can possibly give anyone. And if you still disagree with the law, please contact your law MAKERS on getting the laws changed, and we will happily comply.
Be nice to the officer! I'm dead serious here. For infractions, police officers have individual discretion whether to ticket you or not. Well, sometimes our hands are tied, but overall, you'd be surprised as to how much say we have. And you'd also be surprise at just how often being rude can make the difference between a ticket and just a warning. Why? Because if you're being rude, it gives the officer the impression that you "still don't get it". I've been on both sides of the of the fence on this one, and let me just say that BEING NICE PAYS!
If your officer has been rude to you, contact the police department and file a complaint. It's that simple. Don't bother trying to argue with a police officer. Right or wrong, I guarantee that you will not win.
Go to court. Even if you get ticketed and it is entirely your fault, go to court anyways... but plead guilty. The reason why isn't so people can somehow get around the law. Rather, you're officially admitting guilt, but you're throwing yourself at the mercy of the court. Doing so could very possibly get your charges reduced or even dropped.
Don't represent yourself! If you plan on fighting the ticket, please oh please don't represent yourself! 9 out of 10 people who have represented themselves just end up making a total fool out of themselves. Worse yet, if you anger the magistrate, he or she can actually INCREASE the cost of your ticket... because of the valuable time you've taken up the court. It may sound counterproductive at first, but trust me, paying for legal representation can actually save you more money in the long run.
Have evidence! Even if you're completely innocent, you must have some evidence to prove it. Otherwise, I'm sorry to say that your day in court will be a very disappointing one. So, if you plan on fighting your ticket, bring proof!
Last but not least, whatever you do, please take tickets seriously! Believe it or not, but not handling your ticket by the given due date marks you as a fugitive who is subject for arrest. And yes, we've actually arrested people who are deliquent on traffic tickets before. And it's not because we like abusing our powers. Rather, we simply have no idea whether someone who skips out is a danger to society or just someone who just absent-mindedly forgot. We're not psychic, and sometimes, all we have is an arrest warrant to go by. So please be sure to handle all your tickets promptly.
I hope you have found this prickly article helpful. I think everybody gets a ticket sooner or later, but with the above tips, it should help you minimize the cost as much as is technically possible.
I also want to assure you that it's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. We don't think you're a criminal, a bad person, or anything like that at all. Honestly? We just want to do our job, and get home in one piece without too many people complaining on us... for doing our job. But if you are cooperative and friendly, not only will it minimize the stressful experience, some officers may even bend their backs backward to help you! I know I have!
Common myths about traffic tickets
May 16th, 2007 at 07:42 am
May 16th, 2007 at 06:25 pm
May 16th, 2007 at 06:28 pm
I have to say that being respectful and telling the truth got me out of a speeding ticket I deserved the one and only time I was pulled over for speeding. I wasn't paying attention to the speedometer and I realized I was going 67 downhill in a 55 only seconds before the police car came around the corner. I was already self-correcting but not fast enough for radar.
I said yes, sir and no sir, and didn't lie that I wasn't speeding when I was, simply told him I hadn't been paying attention to the dashboard. I also thanked him profusely for just giving me a warning. As a rule I'm not a speeder, I'm the one on cruise control at 55 driving all the fast drivers crazy. But that day I was and a little respect went a long way.
May 16th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I seem to remember that the Son of Sam killer was first caught because of an unpaid traffic ticket. So not everybody should pay.
May 17th, 2007 at 05:29 am
Where I worked, there is at least 1 doughnut shop here, but why do that when there are also 24 hour diners? Now THERE'S a stereotype that's completely true. Haha. But yeah, sometimes doughtnut shops too.
May 17th, 2007 at 07:00 am
Good point, baselle! Serial killers should remember NOT to pay their tickets, so that way police have a better chance of catching them. Gee, I hope some serial killers read this blog and take heed!
May 17th, 2007 at 07:03 am
That doesn't make any sense.
I just went to court for a speeding ticket yesterday, my first offense ever.
I pleaded not guilty and asked to speak with the Assistant District Attorney's office. That's the guy who has to waste his time prosecuting you at a trial if you plead Not Guilty. You think he wants to waste his time on a speeding ticket?
No, he doesn't.
He offered me a reduction and I took it. Problem solved.
May 17th, 2007 at 07:17 am
May 17th, 2007 at 07:25 am
Aw come on, cut her some slack. It was probably a typo.
JG:
At least in my county's court system, they have District Attorneys who deal with lesser offenses such as traffic tickets.
Also, it's perfectly normal for them to offer reduced charges. That's why I always recommend to go to court. But again, you typically get that becuase you're offering to plead guilty.
Brian:
On the streets yes, you are innocent until proven guilty. However, to balance that, when you are in the court system, you are actually presumed guilty, and the burden of proof for innocence is on you.
May 17th, 2007 at 07:29 am
When you see the lights behind you:
1) Hazards on
2) Pull over
3) Engine off
4) Interior Light on
5) window down
6) hands on wheel
--make the cop feel safe!
Given that I'm usually guilty as sin when pulled over, I've found the 'I was speeding, I'm a jerk.' line works quite well.
From here, there are two kinds of tickets I generally get:
1) Big speeding ticket, but always a little less than I was actually going (thanks for not hauling me into jail on that 35+mph over the limit misdemeanor
2) the warning ticket -- you got a 'following too close' or 'excessive lane change' when you deserved a reckless driving and speed competition as well -- just plead guilty and pay the fine or the cop will show up and tell the judge what you were REALLY doing...
Lastly, I hate to be cynical, but I think these tactics only work if you are:
a) not black, and
b) look like a solid taxpayer
May 17th, 2007 at 07:32 am
Once the cop takes your license/reg/insurance and goes back to the squad car, he is watching your face in the rearview mirror -- LOOK REMORSEFUL! Hang your head and shake it sadly from time to time.
May 17th, 2007 at 07:33 am
Where did your department's radar/lidar/whatever equipment come from? More often than not, it's donated by local insurance companies who get to stiff the people you ticket with increased premiums--for them, it's a net profit.
I live in a town where speed cameras are set up--these are unconstitutional, because if you go to court over a ticket given to you by a camera, there is no way they can guarantee you your right to question your accuser.
Also, because the images are digital, there is no way to prove they have not been altered (it's so easy to create a duplicate of one image taken in the same place at different times and under different weather conditions that I could probably make several in under five minutes).
Also, because the tickets are sent to the registered owner of the vehicle, they do not take into account the fact that sometimes people drive vehicles they do not own for very legitimate purposes--the person ticketed is not always the person who committed the offense.
Also, because the police process these tickets, they have the option to (and certainly) void tickets issued to city employees, their fellow officers, and firefighters who are speeding off the job (or without their lights on). Who's policing the police?
But that's automated speed traps... what about actual ones with human beings? You say that they're how cops hang out in one spot, and you just want us to slow down and obey traffic laws.
Have you ever even thought about how these traffic laws came into being? If you flag an area where you pull a ton of people over for speeding as a problem area and the limit gets lowered there, that could be the wrong solution to the problem: maybe the speed limit is too low already, and people are driving at a speed at which they feel comfortably safe and in control of their vehicles.
If you look at a specific area and determine it is an area at which there are too many accidents and want to make it safe, there are many more factors to look at than just speed. How wide are the lanes? Are there intersections at areas where incoming cars are blinding by the slope of the road or a stand of trees? Is the road itself in disrepair? Is this a spot where there are frequent animal crossings? Do people frequently walk down/cross this road and not have a safe pedestrian walkway?
Here's another variable to consider: is it too easy for incompetent drivers to get licensed in your state? How do you measure the competency of a driver--is speeding actually negligence?
Governments too frequently lower speed limits as sort of a panacea to traffic problems, and as a side benefit pull in more revenue from the increase in tickets. This is a lazy solution to a complex and difficult problem, and it is unfair to competent drivers. It also frequently increases traffic--another complex and difficult problem.
Also, I find it interesting that revenue from tickets can barely help cover the cost to the courts. I'm sure that cops and the courts would be better served by handling less of these cases and more troubling issues like interdepartmental abuse of power.
I was punched in the face by an off-duty police officer for telling a mexican guy to not stick around and press a conflict that he had with the officer. The officer had been bullying the mexican guy, and wanted to start a fight. Because the mexican guy left, and the officer still wanted a fight, he hit me. I did not hit him back. He shoved me to the ground and kicked me. All I did was yell at him to leave me alone. He then laughed, said he was a police officer, and ran off. I reported the incident to an on-duty officer, and we found the offender nearby and an incident report was filed. When I went to press charges, the department claimed that there was no such report on file. I had a black eye. Nothing was done.
May 17th, 2007 at 07:59 am
May 17th, 2007 at 07:59 am
"Myth" #1 is ABSOLUTELY true. Every traffic cop MUST write a certain number of tickets or get yanked out of traffic. This is NEVER written down but just a "friendly suggestion" every time you fall under a certain number.
"Myth" #2 is ABSOLUTELY true. "Court costs" are now about $200 PER OFFENSE. If I write you a single ticket for speeding and registration violation that's a minimum of $400 to the city. Anyone who doesn't see that's a huge money-maker for the city or county is a fool or a liar.
"Myth" #3 is ABSOLUTELY true. When a neighboring city (say Bartlett or Germantown) lowers their speed limit from 45 instantly down to 30 -- as you cross city limits -- and then has a traffic cop regularly sitting about 100-feet inside their city limits, at $200 or more a pop for "Court costs" . . . well you decide for yourself.
"Myth" #4 is ABSOLUTELY true. Now here's the big secret (and that B.S. about "hanging out with each other" and "catching up on reports" made me laugh) . . . the big secret is that once an officer stops a car for ANY traffic violation, he can search it, run I.D. checks, and harass the hell out of its driver and occupants if they are guilty of D.W.B.(Driving While Black). Thrill-seekers indeed. All cops know the best action (and the best way to meet young captive girls) is at a road-block or check-point.
May 17th, 2007 at 08:07 am
Thank you for pointing out something that is very important to police officers. And that is, to be cooperative and do whatever you can to ensure the officer that you're not some crazed lunatic with a gun making a cocaine run.
Traffic stops can actually be fairly dangerous, even though 99.9% out of the time, it turns out rather uneventfully for the officer.
And much as I hate to say it, but yes, taking the tact of "Yes, I'm guilty as sin. I'm sorry officer." will work well because, often times, we just want to know that you will slow down and obey the law... even if we know in the back of our heads that many won't and it's just a ploy.
As for looking like a taxpayer and not being black, I'm afraid I can't agree with that one. At least I've never done that. To me, everybody is a potential threat until I have proof otherwise.
May 17th, 2007 at 08:25 am
And no, I don’t drive. I don’t even have a driver’s license!!! (The cops were very disappointed that I didn’t have one — this might have contributed to the harassment level, it really disturbed their little raindance).
May 17th, 2007 at 08:26 am
If I see you driving unsafely, whether speeding or tailgating or whatever, I will follow you and get your license number and get law enforcement involved. I will go to court and testify against you.
Since you are such a poor driver and putting innocent people at risk, I will make sure you have a really bad day.
May 17th, 2007 at 08:29 am
Hey man, let me just say that I think what happened to you is utterly criminal, and arrests should have been made. And that department's mishandling of your complaint? Grossly negligent. If that had happened in our department, that officer would have been suspended immediately, pending investigation.
I'm sorry that that had happened to you. The only thing I can say is that there honest cops out there, and believe it or not, but honest cops probably hate corruption even more than the victims! The reason is because you work so hard for a decent reputation, and all it take is one bad apple....
Back to the topic at hand, yes, I am very well aware of the national speed limit. It was even taught in our academy as a matter of fact. However, as you have pointed out, it was due to oil shortage, not revenue generation. I don't disagree that revenue generation did not occur as a side effect, but again, it was a side effect. Or more specifically, I should have clarified in my entry that law enforcement anyway has nothing to do any of it.
As for the RADAR/LIDAR/etc. equipment, actually, our department bought it with our own money. All of our equipment was bought with our own money. Granted it was tax money, and I've heard of the highway division testing out some equipment which I don't know the origins of, but as far as I know, we don't answer to any insurance companies.
As for the cameras, I think the best thing to do is to lobby your lawmakers to have them removed. The typical line officer doesn't have any control over them.
Lastly, police abuses are typically taken deadly seriously in our department. The last time a legitimate abuse of power occurred, it costed the police department, city, and tax payers more than 100k in damages, and even then the victim was rightfully still angry about it. From our end, it makes us look horribly bad, and we honestly don't want that.
May 17th, 2007 at 08:37 am
Could it be possible that they didn't like you because you told them they were a bunch of "tossers" who should be "writing tickets" instead? Hmm, I wonder?
Depending on location, it's perfectly normal for the Police to question everyone in the area regarding terrorism. I know, it may not make any sense, but again, remember that we're not psychic. We don't know you're harmless until you have proof.
Finally, not having an ID can be serious sometimes. I'm slightly surprised that they simply let you go. Your ID can go a long way in proving who you are, and a driver's license is typically the most common form of picture ID.
Often times, when we detain people who don't have IDs, we have to detain them even longer to verify your identity. So, in other words, they could have held you for even longer so you can complain about how these cops with nothing to do are harrassing you for even longer than is needed just to take pictures for your friends!
May 17th, 2007 at 08:39 am
I've lived all over lower New York State and have traveled throughout the Eastern U.S. by car. My experience with police have more often shown them to be aggressive, taking every opportunity to screw you over.
Speed traps/speeding tickets are clearly a money making scheme employed by the municipality. I must reiterate what others said that speed limits are most of the time ludicrously low - there are drivers who can handle driving at that speed. The problem of accidents should be fixed at the level where permission is granted - the issuance of licenses to competent drivers only.
In other words, alter the test to get a license to allow only more competent drivers on the road in the first place rather than issue a "quick fix" speed limit reduction or traffic device introduction after the fact that gives the illusion something is being done to reduce accidents. In reality commuters' levels of productivity are being lowered and money is being made for the municipality.
Changes like this would be good starting points in convincing me that this is not being done for money.
May 17th, 2007 at 09:13 am
Thank you for your substantive input. Yes, we officers do hang out with one another. Wouldn't make sense if we're always isolated from one another, would it? In retrospect though, that informal slang probably isn't the best line to use. I can only imagine what others have visually conjured up in their minds.
As for other departments, I'm afraid I can't speak for them, though having been a former (upstate) New Yorker myself, I must agree that their tactics are on the aggressive side. To be fair, I don't know the reasoning behind that, if there is one. I only know that that is not how our department operates.
Without a doubt, police abuse and corruption exists, and I realize it's tempting to extend that rationale to say that all of law enforcement in general is like that. However, I personally know for a fact that not all of them are like that. I had the honor and privilege of working with the fine police department in Raleigh, NC.
May 17th, 2007 at 09:31 am
Trouble is 'driving like an idiot' is a judgment call...and would never hold up in court.
I also think it is silly to give out drivers licenses to anyone and everyone, driving a 2 ton car is seen as a right, not a privilege to be earned by far to many.
(since I don't drive, I get out of traffic tickets the easy way
May 17th, 2007 at 09:33 am
You are innocent until proven guilty when you're in court. The standard for arrest is lower. In court, cases are regularly thrown out for lack of evidence. This applies to traffic tickets as well, according to an article I read by a traffic lawyer. (Of course, the cop's word counts as evidence, but if you can cast sufficient doubt on his testimony, you're home free. This won't work if you admitted your guilt to the cop.)
The cops cannot search your car just because they stopped you on a traffic offense. They have to have probable cause to search, unless you give them permission. The ACLU has a nice video on this subject. "Sorry, officer, I don't consent to search. Am I free to go?"
We don't live in Soviet Russia, and we are not required to carry our ID at all times. However there was a case a couple years ago establishing that we do have to tell the cops our names, if they ask. If you get undue harassment for not having ID, call the ACLU and their lawyers will probably be happy to make things right.
Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to plead guilty up front. Plead not guilty and offer to plead guilty to a lesser offense, that way you have something to bargain with.
In my town, incidentally, the traffic courts are so overloaded that people with really high speeding tickets regularly get out with a no-points "bad speedometer" charge.
May 17th, 2007 at 09:43 am
May 17th, 2007 at 10:43 am
1) Police car parked behind a lare concrete column on the freeway, where the police car is completely hidden. Then, he gives tickets to people that drives by in the fast lane doing 70, while everyone else is also doing 70 or more in the other lane...huh?
1.5) Same as above, except this is by a freeway onramp (see explanation to follow), and gives tickets to people who may be a little too excited about going to the full speed limit too quickly. This is one of those street that becomes a freeway, so the speed limit goes from 30 to 45 right away, then 55 in about half a mile, then to the full 65. So the cop would give tickets to people for accelerate to 55 or 65 in the 45 zone. I don't know why this is so, because by that point, there are no houses or streets that interrup this freeway anymore. The area where there are interruptions where it would make sense to go slow already has a speed limit of 30 that you really can't break w/o killing yourself because it's a very sharp curve to get into the "freeway proper" part of this street, which is straight.
2) Police car gives ticket to car in fast lane, accelerating in an area where the speed limit goes from 55 to 65, while another car flies by at probably 80 in the slower lane and gets off the next exit.
3) Police car parks on a side road and gives ticket to a bright-colored car in the SLOW lane going as fast as all the other cars on a main thoroughfare road that is 45, but turns into 30 for a small stretch.
4) Police parks an unmarked white van alongside of the road, with a camera, with no signs whatsoever... and sends tickets to unsuspecting motorists. I know this because a couple of my coworkers go tickets that way.
5) Oh... and I love this one... Police car drives to a stoplight, turns lights on and crosses it and turn the light off. Then, he does the same thing at the next light... This continues for 4 or 5 lights in a row, then drives normally from then on. I live on a highrise that looks right out a major road so I can see all of this. At first I thought it was for some emergency, but it turns out he just didn't want to stop and wait for the lights, because after the last night he continued driving normally because the light is green.
So, while I think that the public does not doubt that there are honest officers out there, and government that's not corrupted, there are simply an unacceptable number of officer and government bureaucrats who take advantage of the system and abuse their power. And you wonder why we all hate you.
May 17th, 2007 at 11:04 am
The irony is that your statement is entirely false. Innocent until proven guilty is a measure that exists outside of the courts.
However, yes, you are allowed to decline consent searches. It is well within your constitutional rights to do so. If the officer strongly suspects of wrongdoing, they will find some other way. However, because it is perfectly legal to decline consent searches, I personally have no problem with it.
Finally, yes, it does make sense to plead guilty... but only if you really are guilty. If not, then I agree that pleading it up front doesn't make sense either.
May 17th, 2007 at 11:13 am
May 17th, 2007 at 11:28 am
snake:
If you're a lawyer, then you should know that court procedures, not just the laws themselves are different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Therefore, while your advice may work for some, it won't for others such as mine.
For example, in my county, the DA actually lines everyone up and ask in advance if you want to plead guilty for a reduced charge. Doing so greatly reduces their workload it seems. After that, I've seen... I'd say over 95% of the time, they'll go to bat over all the charges. Even if it's only for a few minutes. And what trips most people up is that they'll usually try to represent themselves, and end up shooting their own case in the proverbial foot.
But such is the power of ignorance and arrogance....
Finally, and most specifically, if you really ARE guilty, the only way out is over a technality... which I personally do not advocate. In our court system, when they reduce your charges, it's just enough that it won't affect your insurance. I've always taken that when I've been ticketed... but mostly because I really was at fault.
May 17th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Welcome. Yes, that's a very fair assessment of law enforcement. I think many people think of law enforcement based on their own small slice of personal experiences-- be it good or bad. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but especially with negative experiences, I think many will extrapolate that into what I think is an unfair generalization against all of law enforcement.
This sentiment is very, very hard to live down. I could be a perfect model cop (and I've always tried to be), and yet, I can still be spat on over something some other cop did to them; which has nothing to do with me.
It's sad, but that's how many good cops wear down over time. It's a thankless job where you are always heavily scrutinized (even in this thread) for every little slips you make. This is especially bad since I know many here are diggers and I'm running against the cultural grain.
But yes, law enforcement officers do run the gamut, and while there are bad cops out there, I hope people will also keep in mind that there are good cops out there as well.
May 17th, 2007 at 11:49 am
They've got a damned hard job to do, they are just citizens like the rest of us but are treated with suspicion and never thanked for the job they do. Who do you call when some son of a bitch is trying to run you off the road? Your mother? Sorry.
I've been ticketed. A lot. And the ONLY way to go is with an attorney. He knows all the prosecutors, smiles at them, says "Hey, what's shakin'?", they talk it over, he agrees that I'm WAY out of line but that I'm going to change my ways, etc and etc, I do defensive driving, pay a (smaller) fine, and I'm on my way.
Like a poster above, ANY time I get pulled over I immediately turn on the inside lights, hands on the steering wheel, when they come to the door I say "Officer, I am now going to get my license out of my wallet". Even if they ticket me, I thank them for doing the job they do.
I got a ticket. Totally deserved -- I'm a speeder. Less than two weeks later I witnessed a horrific accident. A terror show -- the guy was alive but his arm was like something from a horror movie, broken in a hundred places, looked like a butcher shop. I'm standing there, holding pressure on his arm to keep his blood in, here comes a cop -- guess what. It's the exact same cop who ticketed me. I can't tell you how happy I was to see him; I knew he would do all in his power to make things right for this poor bastard with all his injuries.
I'm not about giving up my rights, and I know what most of them are. But I don't like to hassle cops. It's pointless. Stand up for your rights, take your ticket, thank the cop for doing what he does for a living, let your attorney deal with it.
May 17th, 2007 at 01:19 pm
May 17th, 2007 at 01:36 pm
May 17th, 2007 at 01:39 pm
Because it's a fact that people get their cases dismissed or are found not guilty on a regular basis, simply due to insufficient evidence - not evidence of innocence, just insufficient evidence of guilt.
And it's a fact that when people get arrested, and subsequently get their cases dismissed due to lack of evidence, usually nobody thinks the cop overstepped the bounds. Simple logic says the standards for arrest are looser than the standards for conviction.
So what exactly are you trying to say?
May 17th, 2007 at 02:14 pm
People ask me how fast my corvette can go, and I tell them 50 mph. That is as fast as I go. (we have no interstates around here.)
May 17th, 2007 at 03:21 pm
--Of course, I'm really only casting stones at your attitude, because nothing's more fun than running with another spirited driver -- as long as it stays friendly and fun.
...
Other stuff:
obviously the best way not to get a ticket is not to get pulled over -- keep your eyes open because if you see a cop and slow down, they'll generally let you go even if they heard the tires squeeling to get you under the limit. Also, if you don't see a cop, you're clearly not sufficiently aware of your surroundings to be safe at that speed.
--don't use a radar detector, not only will it not score you any points with a cop, but if you need to rely on one instead of your eyes and instincts, you shouldn't be driving fast enough to need it.
--learn to recognize crown vics, impalas etc -- slow down for them even if you don't see a lightbar -- and learn to recognize their head/tail lights at night.
--don't drive a red or yellow car -- everyone knows blue has a calming effect
--I'm not the first one to say it, but don't modify the appearance of your car in any way -- particularly bumper stickers and plates -- drawing unnecessary attention to yourself is fun, but rarely a good idea.
May 17th, 2007 at 03:43 pm
To be honest, I have absolutely no idea. However, I think it is safe to say that no one can really read a magistrate's mind until you're there being handed down a verdict. So, feel free to give that a try if you must. However, as I have mentioned before, I don't advocate trying to get around the system. If you're guilty, you're guilty. If you're innocent, you're innocent. Speaking of which....
jpok, joe:
When you go to court, the presumption is that you're already there for a reason; that a charge has already been made against you and that there is probable cause to back it up. Otherwise, you would not be there to begin with; that the officer should have let you go.
From there, the burden of proof of your innocence rests upon your shoulders to somehow disprove the charges made against you. Contrary to what I've read even in Wiki for example, the DA simply do not sit there all day trying to find you guilty. They name off the charges that is made against you, and then it's up to you or your lawyer to prove them wrong. They may make objections or rebuttals after that, but that's beside the point.
However, I will admit that we (United States) do not have a technical "presumed guilty until proven innocent", and I apologize for such a serious faux pas. I don't pretend to be a lawyer or even an expert in even this subject matter. I can only speak from my own experiences, and I certainly don't expect anyone to actually believe me. Sadly.
Mae Culpa.
May 17th, 2007 at 04:01 pm
Haha, yeah, I agree that I would never officially endorse anyone to get in harm's way. But then, I must admit I did that sort of thing when I was younger too... so, far be it for me to cast my own stones.
As for radar detectors, the state laws, and possibly municipal laws vary. So, I would check on that. It's legal here in North Carolina, so that's never been an issue to us personally. Radar detectors is a large subject matter in itself, one that I don't think I am prepared to get into at this time.
As for the color of the car, I wish I thought of it earlier, because there's another myth right there. Yeah, it's true that flashy cars will get attention from anyone, including police officers. However, that's just a general effect rather than specifically a "cop magnet". We don't automatically think someone driving a flashy car is automatically a danger to society.
Quite the opposite, we know many are a lot more careful... because they have a nice car. We also know that these drivers are likely more capable than the average driver on the road. And certainly, these vehicles are usually much more capable of avoiding collisions than some jalopy that didn't pass inspections.
In fact, I'll never forget this one time where this fellow officer who is himself a ricer, hanging out with a couple of other ricers and their vehicles on a Saturday night. Sure, street racing is illegal here, but nothing in the law books say you can't own and drive modded WRXes.
Although it's a strange sight to see at first, in the end, we're all just boys who love their toys.
May 17th, 2007 at 04:25 pm
May 17th, 2007 at 04:27 pm
There is only one highly effective way to beat a ticket - be a hot girl and you will never ever get a ticket in the first place.
Every time I see a cop giving a ticket, I think, there's less cop catching a criminal. But hey, maybe after they write up a couple dozen dangerous speeders and parkers, they can go bust some drug users. Not dealers.
It's all about the money.
May 17th, 2007 at 06:53 pm
This article sounds remarkably like good sense to me.
-maggie
May 17th, 2007 at 07:32 pm
When you're dealing with someone who wants to fuck with you, can get away with it, has a gun, and hundreds of well-armed buddies a radio call away, the correct response is to think omega-wolf -- get on your back with your paws in the air and tail between your legs -- bare your throat -- all you're doing is showing that you understand the reality of the situation.
I like to judge people as individuals, and I consider cops people, so I won't make any broad statements, but I try to approach situations realistically, and the only way that belligerantly asserting your rights with a cop is going to work is if they are NOT a bully -- so why would anyone do so if they were sure the cop was exactly that? --Reminds me of my favorite homer simpson quote: "Stupid like a fox!"
For what it's worth, I've found that taking a sensible approach is generally rewarded, though as in my first post above, I can't say it's not simply because I come from a good zip code. However, I am SURE it hasn't hurt me.
B.A. -- I've been a few fender-benders -- always going to or from work and under 10mph -- inattentiveness should be the only real ticketable offence.
At speed, I pay attention, and when I'm stuck in traffic, I'm constantly looking for openings, which keeps me aware of my surroundings -- if I just zoned out and drove on auto-pilot with the herd I would argue that that would be more dangerous (though perhaps less obnoxious).
Also, I've been driving at misdeamenor-level speeds for 10+ years, the last 4 in a C5, and I've thought alot about when it is and is not safe/morally defensible to drive quickly (e.g. not in construction zones, residential areas etc), as well as how best to retain my license while continuing my ghandi-esque peaceful protest of the ridiculous notion that a speed-limit can serve as an acceptable proxy for paying attention behind the wheel.
--I like to delude myself that at least some of the leeway I usually get from cops is because they realize I am not a danger to my fellow motorists, and am thus adhering to the spirit, if not the letter, of the law.
May 17th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Most cops are losers.
Never trust a cop.
May 17th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
> Could it be possible that they didn't like you
> because you told them they were a bunch of "tossers"
> who should be "writing tickets" instead? Hmm, I wonder?
Well, the abuse started well before I was stopped and detained; the bitch called me "buddy", which I view as quite impolite (and she would never let me talk beyond what she asked me — she would very loudly tell me to shut-up, so that’s why I say she’s a bitch). Remember, this happenned in Ottawa, Canada, 3 blocks from the Supreme Court of Canada, where one would expect the police to call people "excuse me, sir", not "buddy". I simply returned the abuse when it was clear to all those involved that I was doing nothing illegal, but that they decided to investigate me nonetheless.
> Depending on location, it's perfectly normal for
> the Police to question everyone in the area regarding
> terrorism. I know, it may not make any sense, but
> again, remember that we're not psychic. We don't know
> you're harmless until you have proof.
It does not makes any sense. I was not standing on transit property, but on the sidewalk of a perfectly public street. I wasn’t taking pictures of government buildings, but of old, beaten-up city buses in a decrepit area of town. I was told by transit security that I was free to go after I refused to identify myself, and they then called the cops on me as soon as I left the place.
This is plain abuse. And this is why I refused to cooperate. Civil rights only get worn away when you don’t use them. And I made sure to tell them that suspecting terrorism is no reason to toss civil rights in the dumper.
> Finally, not having an ID can be serious sometimes.
Nothing in the law forces us to have an ID; nothing in the law defines what an ID is. In case I need one, I have a birth certificate, which is what I handed-out. And I know by experience that it completely baffles cops, but they can’t say fuck-all about it. The bitch was really pissed that I didn’t have a driver’s license — I told her that that’s all what I had and that’s all she’d get.
> I'm slightly surprised that they simply let you go.
> Your ID can go a long way in proving who you are,
> and a driver's license is typically the most
> common form of picture ID.
I don’t drive. I can’t drive; I’m dyslexic, and I will mix gas and brake (I know, it happenned to me several times when I was operating streetcars 20 years ago — so I decided never to drive a car) or red and green lights (when I walk, I only cross when there are no cars). It also baffles people that I don't have a driver’s licence.
So I should be penalized because I can’t drive??? If the bitch didn’t like it me not having a driver’s license, well, that’s her problem; she should not make it mine.
In retrospect, I would also say that she was also pissed off at me looking straight into her eyes at all time (why wouldn’t I? She was quite hot — 150 pounds of pure bitch), standing with my arms crossed instead of being a nice submissive little puppy, and certainly not talking in any deferential tone.
> Often times, when we detain people who don't have
> IDs, we have to detain them even longer to verify
> your identity. So, in other words, they could have
> held you for even longer so you can complain about
> how these cops with nothing to do are harrassing
> you for even longer than is needed just to
> take pictures for your friends!
And they would have had a greater hassle than tying 3 cops in rush-hour, blocking THE major transit axis of the city with their improperly parked cruisers.
What was funny is that when I did my complaint about the police misconduct, they could not find any reference about it; I actually had to go through the transit security department to get their own report about it and only then the Ottawa police was able to find the people involved. Talk about incompetence (and you might have heard in the news how the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, 22 years ago, let a jet take-off even though they knew that a bomb was aboard, bomb which blew-up and killed the 300 people on board — google for "Air India Bomb Canada").
I made sure the head of transit security knew how his little peons stunt seriously delayed their rush-hour bus service. As you can expect, there was no answer…
May 17th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
The bottom line is, thanks to this little incident, it is quite unlikely that I will trust the cops from now on.
May 18th, 2007 at 05:48 am
It's also part of the reason why this job can be so tough.
May 18th, 2007 at 06:31 am
May 18th, 2007 at 06:38 am
May 18th, 2007 at 07:54 am
May 18th, 2007 at 09:43 am
With you experience, could you shed a little light on just how far over the posted speed limit is typically "safe" for not getting pulled over? I've heard that for roads with a speed limit of over 30 MPH, that 8 MPH over is often the "breaking point" for getting pulled over.
BTW, I was referred to your blog from www.woot.com, one of the best darn sites in existence.
May 18th, 2007 at 09:57 am
I remember overhearing a follow (recently graduated) officer with one of his weekly oral review with his supervisor. The supervisor asked 'with all this time open how come you haven't written any tickets?' He said that there were no violations occuring in his area. The supervisor wrote 38 that shift on his post as a demonstration. This is the only case of over-eagerness I know of in my seven years in that department.
Myth 2 is true, but rare. There is an agency near where I live that has about 1/4 mile of highway that cuts across the corner of the city's boundaries. I notice they have about 2/3 of the docket with cases that are typically 71 in a 60 or such. Moreover they have recodified the state law into their city ordinances which causes all fines to be payable to the city and not the state. My feeling is all fines and fees for moving violations should go to the state's general fund, not any locality. The state will be most thrifty in deciding how much can go back to the locality--if anything this locality (and any others like it) would probably reduce enforcement to only those who really need to be stopped as the costs will exceed the benefit.
Myth 3 has a grain of truth--mainly because enforcement is not as rigid as many believe. It is probably safe to drive 35 in most 30 zones, 70 in most 60 zones, etc. Thing is most courts, and in turn officers, tend to give an allowance; this in turn forces DOT to set lower limits than roads would allow to ensure safe conditions, even with typical speeding. I have no doubt that if enforcement was strict and fines much higher than they are we'd have higher speed limits.
Shelly Adams
May 18th, 2007 at 10:49 am
In San Francisco, you cannot get anyone to enforce motorcycle noise restrictions, even if you're the frikkin' mayor! I assume there's a pro-chopper Captain somewhere, but that's just my suspicion.
May 18th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
In own our department, the general rule of thumb is that it's fine within 5mph to 8mph, but 10mph is the breaking point for a stop. This is a general cushion to account for minor discrepancies, and presumably, by the time it's over 10mph, there should be no doubt of a moving violation.
So, in short, it's basically what you have observed as well. Having said that, I must emphasize again that this is only a general rule of thumb. I've seen some departments who adhere to much stricter standards, and for example, will pull someone over for as little as being over 3mph.
Michele Adams:
Thank you for your contribution, Shelly. Or is that Michele? Or does it matter since we're all on the internet anyways.
I do have my own thoughts in response to what you have presented, but in the end, I think we would find that we are essentially on the side of the coin here, and that if anything, it would only be splitting hair. That's not a bad thing per se, but it would end up being rather lengthy just to come to that conclusion.
And again, what I have presented is only my own experiences as I do not speak for all of law enforcement as a whole.
Doodaddy:
Yes, our department do have certain programs. Sometimes, they are motivated and coordinated from up above through city management. Other times, it is in response to high instances of accidents, crime, or advance information to a specific threat.
However, more often than not, we just get out there and do our job with no special campaigns planned. Or, more specifically, my supervisors have never said, "Ok. this month is ticket speeder month, and next month, we'll do shoplifters."
May 18th, 2007 at 01:27 pm
It seems that on the interstates they are looking for safety issues, not just speed.
I applaud the state of Virginia for this, I just hope that it is true!?!?
May 18th, 2007 at 02:05 pm
I've fought tickets that I considered wrong, usually with photographic evidence of why I think the ticket is incorrect. For example, I got written up for "crossing a double yellow line" yet I *knew* there was no double yellow there. It turns out that there was *supposed* to be one but the paint was all worn off and so they had to "give me the benefit of the doubt" (yes, those were the clerk's exact words); when I drove by that area later, it had bright new yellow lines.
The local paper (I live in a small town) did a little piece on how speed limits are set in Massachusetts; they monitor a section of road and get the average speed and then set the speed limit to 90% of that; this guarantees that *most* people are speeding so as far as I'm concerned, Myth#3 is absolutely true. From looking at the town budget and going to town meetings (yeah, it's a small town), I'm also going to say that Myth #2 is absolutely true; I lived at the bottom of a long hill where two streets crossed. The speed limit dropped from 45 to 30, there was a light and a nearly universal LEO presence, writing tickets. It would have been far smarter from a traffic perspective to have the light change to blinking yellow on the "main" street and blinking red on the "cross" street after a certain time of day but that wouldn't have paid for the new Blazers the police acquired.
I will say that if they stopped you and you lived in town, they gave you a warning (or so the rumour went, I never got stopped); it was only those passing through that funded the campaign.
May 18th, 2007 at 02:10 pm
However, I am glad that there has been a cop sitting behind my house on the busy road adjacent to my backyard where it is common to go 50 in the 35 zone, there are houses on the road, there are children, and there are people that would like less speedy drivers losing control of their vehicles when a racoon crosses the road and they end up in my neighbor's backyard.
May 18th, 2007 at 03:59 pm
Roads are designed and built to handle speeds well above the stated speed limit. Add to that the fact that cars are much safer and more reliable than in the past and you can imagine that there are certainly places and conditions where 50 in a 35 zone is safe.
Running red lights, tailgating and weaving in and out of traffic are all far more dangerous than a single vehicle by itself doing 50 in a 35 zone. These activities are far harder to catch, but doing so would improve public safety greatly. Being hit by someone running a red light is going to result in a serious accident. Going 10 MPH over the speed limit during light traffic is unlikely to result in serious injuries.
If public safety is truly the goal here, and not revenue, then the police should target these far more dangerous vehicle violations.
May 18th, 2007 at 08:28 pm
To this day, I don't trust a single cop, I'm sorry to say. I met many a decent or nice policing agents over the years, I'm polite and even solicitous of providing them the information they will request, and I even worked for some of them, but I do not trust them. If a bunch of "New York's finest" could so summarily deprive me of my rights, they (as a group) are not to be trusted. Sad, but true for me.
May 18th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
SPEEDING TICKETS ARE FOR REVENUE, NOTHING ELSE.
I THINK THE BEST WAY TO SCREW THE TRAFFIC COPS WOULD BE FOR EVERYBODY TO OBEY EVERY TRAFFIC LAW TO THE EXACT
DEFINTION. THAT WOULD CUT THE GOVERNMENT'S REVENUE
DOWN ZERO. I DON'T THINK THEY'D LIKE THAT.
May 18th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I just wanted to say that I have never met a bad policeman, ever. I guess I am part of the balance to the ones who have apparently never met a good one. I appreciated your article a lot, though the cops at my doughnut shop loved the doughnuts and used the coffee to put out cigarettes back in the day when you could smoke inside.
May 19th, 2007 at 04:26 am
All you people (who are not cops) whining and telling a cop his job...whatever excuse you have for doing 55 in a 30, whatever bad experience you may have had in the past, whatever rumors you may have heard (such as quotas or moneymakers for the city), the fact that you've SEEN a cop in a donut shop and therefore all cops must love donuts. Just one question for you.
How many tickets have you gotten for exceeding the speed limit, and how many have you gotten for driving less than the limit? That's the limit, not driving less than a minimum on a highway, that's obstructing traffic. I mean how many tickets have you gotten for going 65MPH in a 55, and how many have you gotten for going 50MPH in a 55?
Bottom line, whatever you have heard, whatever reason you think is behind it...you got that ticket for going 65MPH in a 55. Your opinion that it is an aritifical limit set too low so the city can make money, your opinion that the cop is just bugging you because he's behind on his quota, your opinion that everyone else does it so you HAVE to speed...these are all irrelevant. Bottom line, you got a speeding ticket for speeding. Period.
May 19th, 2007 at 06:41 am
May 19th, 2007 at 06:50 am
@ all regarding good cops vs bad cops: cops are unique, just like everyone else (*grin*), so there are bound to be good ones and bad ones. just like not all bikers are bad-a$$e$, not all cops are power-hungry and corrupt. the ones that are just happen to garner a lot more attention than the ones that are normal people: normal doens't make good news fodder.
@ howard, i can say i actually do know someone pulled over for going too slow on the interstate: a co-worker in atlata. he was doing 55 in a 55 and the rest of traffic was moving 80. the cop pulled him over to give him a warning that his speed could and would cause an accident. make of that what you will. similarly, in 99 or so a car in ATL was rear ended and demolished by a semi on GA 400 b/c it was going 35 on the interstate in a 65 zone. while i'm not certain, i believe the investigation found that the driver of the semi could in no way have stopped his truck in time since the vehicle in front of him was going so slow.
May 19th, 2007 at 06:52 am
I have, based on evidence posted above, come to the conclusion that saving money makes you polite :-))
BTW well done on the last contest and good luck for this one
May 19th, 2007 at 01:54 pm
Try going a week without giving out a speeding ticket.
Yeah... that's what I thought
May 19th, 2007 at 02:00 pm
My SO, who has spotless record (never a ticket before)
got a "failure to obey the stop sign" ticket.
(He slowed down, saw there were no cars coming and went, as most drivers do in the city...)
The problem is not the 65$ ticket (don't care about that)
the problem is that our insurance (on an 8 year old car, with clean driving record and good credit history) is $400 A MONTH NOW!!!(Brooklyn, 24 year old male, many uninsured motorists in that zipcode).
The insurance will go up for 18 months if we are convicted to come out to $2000 MORE over that period if we have a violation on record! (we used a geico quote to figure out the amount) That seems a very harsh punishment for such a minor offence.
We were hoping that pleading "not guilty" would maybe result in some kind of a settlment offer to pay the fine and not get a violation on record(read it online), but we did not get any offer, just the court date. Right now our hearing got postponed (not by us, we were send the change of date notice from the court)
I don't know what to do in court, but 2K for this offence seems draconian.
P.S. He now stops at all stop lights for 3 seconds, annoying the heck out motorists behind us.
Oh, and as for myth about not having quotas -- that evening, driving home after getting a ticket we saw 4 other cars pulled over by police -- that is very very unusual for our area.
I would really appreciate any advice!
May 19th, 2007 at 09:00 pm
First time I let someone change over in front of me in the 65mph freeway, they then immediately slow down to about 40. I got annoyed and tail gated them. What I didn't realize was that there was a cop in the next lane B). Got pulled over and after demonstrated that I was just a fully ensured, harmless with a clean record, but frustrated driver, I was let go with a warning. Cop was hispanic.
Second time, I was in an accident. The cop marked my info as Male in the report. Cop was white. We were worry that inaccurate info would cause the insurance to refuse to pay so I tried to contact him to fix the report. He called back and want to set up a lunch meeting to um... discuss recruitment. Wth? I politely declined and asked him to fix the report. It wasn't fixed.
Third time I was rear ended by the sister of a California Highway Patrol member while I was waiting to turn right at an intersection. The light was red and I was at a complete stop. The off duty CHP sister was on the way to meet this lady and adamantly said that the light was green. There was a car between mine and the lady and the sister was saying that that car hit mine before her sister plowed in. That car was patiently waiting behind mine for several second before the impact. I was driving my sister to take her final so I was worry twice as much. I ask one of the officer who's at fault, etc... and he implied that I was at fault. I was seriously pissed at this point. Btw, all of cops were white/hispanic and the sister was white/hispanic while the driver behind me was asian. A while later, more cops arrive, and we get some different races mix in, making the total count to nearly 10. I ask the same question to an asian cop and I was clearly told that there was no way in hell that was my fault. Report stated that the light was green.
Let just say that I won't be expecting anything nice from a white cop.
May 20th, 2007 at 08:33 pm
My two cents: I have been stopped three times and I was always polite and honest ("No, Officer, I didn't realize I had entered the school zone already", "No officer, I thought this was a 55 MPH zone", and "Yes, Officer, I was going too fast. I'm sorry"). Once I was let go completely, and the other two times I was given minor tickets that I was able to get out of by providing more information to the courts. However - I have to add this caveat - DH was given his first ticket at 16 for speeding excessively. I don't know if that followed him, or if this happened because he is a male, but he has NEVER gotten out of a ticket, Ever. And he has always been polite and honest. So maybe gender matters? Or your driving history? I don't know.
Another point to elaborate on: Yes, you can get arrested for a speeding ticket. When aforementioned DH was young and stupid, he decided that ignoring a speeding ticket was the best way to make it go away. Over a year later, he was pulled over for failing to stop completely at a stop sign and arrested on a bench warrant. He was fingerprinted and stayed overnight at the station. Whatever you do, do NOT ignore those tickets. They will NEVER go away.
One last point: I have to politely disagree with BA's assertion to plead guilty. It sounds like this varies greatly from state to state. DH typically pleads not guilty and opts to write to the DA, who has always responded with a reduced charge. In one local town, he decided that since we played cards with the judge, he might get leniency. Wrong. He pleaded guilty and the judge gave him the fine and all the points (4). If he had made a deal with the DA, he would have only gotten 2 points. A few months ago, we received a notice from the NYS DMV - since DH got 6 points on his license within 18 months, we were being assessed a "driver responsibility fee" of $100 per year for 3 years. Always try to get the charges, and therefore the points and fines, reduced.
I have the utmost respect for police officers and I am teaching my kids the same. Yes, there are bad eggs out there, but I do believe they are the exception and not the rule. I guess some of it might depend too on what circumstance you deal with the police. As for me, my only contacts were when I worked at several shelters (they were the ones bringing homeless teenagers and battered women to our doors), at county fairs, and occasionally, in the diner (we don't have a doughnut shop in town)
May 21st, 2007 at 12:05 am
Thanks everyone for being supportive (er.. that is the ones that are trying to be supportive). As always, it means a lot to me, especially on this one.
On the other hand, although I wasn't expecting to be sent to social networks, I knew that this was one going to be a hot topic. It also "helps" that this isn't the first time I've had this particular discussion before.
I don't have any problems with anyone who disagrees with me or does things slightly differently. As I have noted previously, every jurisdiction operates differently, but all I can paint is my own picture through my own eyes with what I have personally seen.
But with that, I'm also beginning to feel redundant; repeating myself to no avail. Therefore, I'm going to stop and let it go where it may (but within reason).
However, nika asked me a question, and I will at least try to respond to that.
Nika... I wish I could have some useful or at least good news for you. Unfortunately, there may not. Generally, it's easy to get a (guilty) plea bargain where I live for speeding, but rolling on a stop sign, for example, is a different story. Unlike speeding, there's just nothing there to reduce.
I also completely understand about insurance, the true cost of traffic tickets. The best thing I can recommend is to hire an attorney who specializes in moving violations. Again, court procedures are different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction; enough to make a difference such that I can not advise you unless on specific tactics unless I am familar with the exact court-- and possibly even magistrate and assistant DA-- that your SO will be appearing.
As for stop signs, a full stop and even counting to "one thousand one" should be plenty, although there's certainly wrong with a longer wait than that.
May 21st, 2007 at 06:21 am
It works for me.
May 21st, 2007 at 08:11 am
Do not remove your seatbelt before the officer comes to the car or you will likely get a ticket for that too. An always wear it. Yes, I probably saved my life by not wearing one when I was 18, but every other accident I had has allowed me to remain in control of the vehicle, or kept my head from hitting the windshield.
May 21st, 2007 at 08:42 am
I have two uncles that are cops, one retired, and one still is. I love talking with them about this kind of thing because I think it's very interesting. My brother was also an MP so I think hearing his opinion too.
I've never had a ticket since I try really hard to obey the laws, and my dad is a Driver's Ed teacher. On my way to work in Ohio for a bit a cop was checking speeds with a radar gun and motioned for the truck behind me to pull over. He did instantly, then I look up in the rear-view mirror and he was right behind me! Eek! I pulled right over onto the shoulder wondering what I had done, when he zoomed around me, and pulled over the car ahead of me. Whew!
I think we were both exciting at the same time and the other car was weaving around so much traffic that he'd originally been the one needing to pull over.
Anyway no ticket for me.
May 21st, 2007 at 09:47 am
About 2 minutes later, I see the same cop making a second pass through the neighborhood, coming the same direction she did, and rolled through the same stop sign. I nearly tore out of my front door just to flag him down, just to call him a hypocrite.
One other time, I drove through a yellow light (safely, not like an idiot), and got pulled over on the other side. My brother was in the passenger side, and two cops came up (one on each side) and shined their damned flashlights right in our eyes. I understand the need for safety, and they want to make sure we're not all glossy-eyed and whatever, but c'mon - check me out, and then get the flashlight out of my face. Don't hold it there for 5 minutes, or you're gonna find out what blind-driving really looks like. So, the cop starts making shit up, like "Your light was red, and the other side was green before you ever entered the intersection." COMPLETELY untrue, but whatever. He gave me a ticket, and showed me where to sign. I told him I just needed a second to read over the ticket. He gave me the "you'll get your copy to read over - just sign it" crap. I politely (but slightly sarcastically) told him that I don't sign anything I don't read first, and made the bastard stand in the rain. Hey, if you're gonna ticket me for something I didn't do - piss on you. I ended up refusing to sign (after about 5 minutes), and took the ticket to court. I was very well prepared, citing physics equations for distance/velocity, calculating braking distance, etc., in conjunction with the amount of time the lights take to change, and the posted speed limit. Turns out, that with all of those factors, the intersection was actually dangerous. Going the proper speed, there is a particular distance that, if I had kept going, I would have run the red light (though I didn't in this case), and if I had slammed on the brakes, I would have ended up exactly in the middle of the intersection. The "yellow" period was too short. But hey, forget all that, and treat me like a criminal, right? Good thing the