Sooo, a fellow co-worker told me about this new ponzi scheme er I mean charity organization, but with a twist. The basic idea is this:
Donate $6, separated into three $2 portions, to your fellow gifters in the organization, and in return, you are eligible to receive back as much as $28 in cash gift yourself.
Now, you can only keep $7, because the other $21 is then split into three $7 portions that you re-donate back into the program, but in return, you are eligible for an even higher sum... that you can keep only a certain portion of while you re-donate the rest back.
Sounds innocent enough. So, what's wrong with this picture?
In order for the system to work, you have to get a lot of new people to join and donate their money, and the magnitude is frightening.
For one thing, it will take up to 14 donations on the first level (hence the name 14 Eagles) just for you to complete level 1. That's roughly 4.6 people required to make the total of 14 donations needed. Let's just say 5 people.
Let me say this again. For you, one person, to make the initial profit of only $1(!), you need 5 people below you. 5 people.
And how many does it require to complete level 2? 25 people. It takes 5 Level 2 gifters, each requiring their own 5 people's worth of level 1 donations to reach level 2 in order for them to gift YOU enough level 2 donations to go to level 3. 25 people.
And how many is required to reach level 3? 125 people. And it just keeps going like that.
The funny thing is, my co-worker believes the math makes sense, because the misleading literature is only showing you the dollar amounts you have the POTENTIAL of making, but never once mentioning the number of people required below you to realize that potential.
There's something else too. Because it's a (shady) charitable organization, it's not really subject to the same regulatory standards as a regular business, even for network marketing types.
Plus, everything is literally handled through cash. Yes, they recommend that you hide the cash, wrapped in magazine pages, stuffed inside darkened envelopes. Uh huh.
Even their website, 14eagles.com, is locked down pretty tight. You can't get in without ID and password. Nothing shows up on the domain registration either. Gotta love a good charity organization with transparency oh wait.... IT DOESN'T.
All this lack of transparency also makes it easy for the program's creator to game the system and keep a substantial portion for himself without anyone knowing.
Fortunately, my co-worker is out of this program. One of the members of his church found some questionable legal details, and his entire church decided to collectively get out of it.
But anyways, here's another cautionary tale about how if something looks too easy or too good to be true, chances are, it is.
14 Eagles
June 23rd, 2010 at 06:19 am
June 23rd, 2010 at 08:44 am
June 23rd, 2010 at 09:41 am
June 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 am
Give us $6, and in time, if you're lucky, we'll give you $7 back so you can earn a $1 profit. Now, even though that $1 translates into roughly 16.7% return, there is NO GUARANTEE if or when that money will ever arrive.
What's worse, unlike investing or even trading, you own NO EQUITY in anything! Therefore, you can't sell anything back at a loss, or even deduct it for a tax loss harvesting. And because you freely gave away your money in some twisted name of charity, little can be done to address your grievances or get your money back.
Even gambling at a casino would be more entertaining than this. Actually, gambling is safer too, because at least there are gaming commissions that regulate the industry!
June 23rd, 2010 at 03:32 pm
Many people don't have sympathy for foolish or gullible people. I have a ton--those are NOT the worst human personality traits someone could have; although greed is somewhat involved when one gets into a pyramid scheme, there are many goodhearted people who get taken out because they don't have enough cynicism or commonsense to protect themselves in this thief-ridden world.
June 29th, 2010 at 10:43 am
June 29th, 2010 at 11:23 am
The hard part on these programs is getting to find two people to duplicate effort. It may take 100 people to get two to duplicate but it appears it could happen with two people with an opposite outlook than most people appear to have. You may have block your co-employee from an opportunity that he/she controls.
I could be that people do not have $6 or they don't have the effort, I really do not know!!!
June 29th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Second of all, you're confusing the supposed revenue versus actual profit. No matter how you slice this, the program only allows you to keep 25% of your total revenue for each level. And of the money you get to keep, most are simply recouping your initial investment money. Again, you'll never see the light of most of that money, but that's what they show you anyways, and that's how they fool you into thinking you're rolling in it.
Thirdly, unless someone explicitly asks, it has never been my policy to tell someone what they should or should not do with their life. When my co-worker introduced this program to me, he was already a member. I didn't block him from anything. And when his church pulled out of the program, and when his wife made him to do the same, I once again had nothing to do with it.
No James. Nothing here is way off base. It's just another ponzi scheme. And the dollar amount involved is irrelevant. This is a life lesson about financial savvy.
Finally, $6 was only the first level. Each level you climb up requires more and more money, until you get to the upper levels, where it would require anywhere from $150 to $700 to participate.
June 29th, 2010 at 01:36 pm
June 29th, 2010 at 05:26 pm
June 30th, 2010 at 03:26 am
June 30th, 2010 at 05:51 am
I will say this much: Throughout the years of my exposure and introductions to various MLMs and ponzi schemes, I've seen fervent supporters defending passionately for their program. But to what end?
Ultimately, money gets funneled to the top for the few from the vast majority below. This is the basics of any MLM.
And when there is no transparency or oversight where money can easily be re-directed by an invisible hand, you've got all the makings of a ponzi scheme.
The only difference here is that, instead of selling or being sold over-priced products and services, you are going straight to the source and simply asked to give up your money.
This type of set up is indeed different from a Fortune 500 company, because most companies are subject regulatory bodies such as the IRS and the SEC. Fortune 500 companies most likely also have to create public financial records for their shareholders. Certainly corruption can still exist but at least it's harder than murky organizations such as 14 Eagles.
And yet, 14eagles does not claim to be a company, so why the comparison in the first place?
This type of set up is also different from getting a loan from your family or a true charity organization, because at least this is direct money transfer from people you trust, and with no 3rd party organizations that lack transparency.
I should also add that I too am from overseas and have received monetary support in the past. And I still do not like the look of this setup.
Indeed people can be quite ignorant. Too many people fall in love with their favored investments, and that ultimately causes them to lose their objectivity. They fully buy into the candy-coated rhetoric that is being pitched, because they want to believe so badly that this can work that they are not willing to look at the facts involved. Yes, most of what I've presented here are factual.
To simply ignore the facts I've present and make some blanket statement that I am forming an opinion here based on assumptions is, well, incorrect.
June 30th, 2010 at 07:40 am
What I read from them is, one never moves up a level unless they have the received the money in hand to do so. Explain to everyone how you are in a position to lose?? It has to be the lack of $6 and/or a willingness to place effort. I am writing this cause programs can work but narrow minded people can block people from an attempt to better themselves. The simple question that should be evident: Who else has offered to assist us for $6 lately??? Gifting programs have nothing to do with MLM. They are people sending money to people as I see it. Shenna above was correct, people can afford $6. But, they have to get out of their own way first.
June 30th, 2010 at 08:48 am
Again, while it may look like you received $6, you do not keep $6. You don't make back your $6 until you've received $24 total, and you don't make the $1 profit until you've reached the $28 total.
Also, while the premise may be to give each other money, it is nevertheless a MLM structure, minus the products and services that are usually associated with such a program. This time, they're just calling it a straight "gift". I'm not saying all MLMs are a bad thing in and of itself, but it is what it is.
June 30th, 2010 at 09:57 am
June 30th, 2010 at 07:46 pm
This gifting program sounds like it could work and if it does, I'll be happy for those who created it and for those that had the courage to take the risk to give up their hard earned $6 in hopes for a gift to be returned to them. Sounds like Church to me. Talk about scams. lol. Just playin, I do believe some churches do serve a positive roll in the community.
I used to work for a major lottery. I used to take money all day from people hoping to get rich from a stroke of a pencil or a scratch of a piece of cardboard. This is no different.
So I said all that to say this. I respect all of your opinions. As for the person that started this blog thank you for bringing this to the light but you only made this program more popular.
In everything you do, do it with the utmost diligence. you will either succeed big or fail big. At the least all you have done is blessed 3 people with $2.
July 1st, 2010 at 03:57 pm
July 4th, 2010 at 08:25 pm
July 4th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
July 6th, 2010 at 01:39 pm
July 6th, 2010 at 06:17 pm
July 8th, 2010 at 06:11 am
July 10th, 2010 at 08:32 pm
July 11th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Even if I don't have the exact details nailed down, the premise remains the same. In order for one person to at least break even, it takes three people below you to give you money. And those three people need nine people below them to break even. And those nine need twenty seven people below them to break even. And so on and so forth.
Regardless of what magnitude you want to use, there is nothing wrong with that very simple math. In the end, a lot of people will have to lose money in order for some existing people to gain money. It's a simple, zero sum game where money is transferred upwards.
And I guess that's why it's necessary to silence critics like me eh? Even though the concept is dirt simple, some of you guys cling on to the minor details surrounding the program and decide that's enough to discredit me and invalidate the whole argument?
And while I'm here, James, you're trying too hard to try to get a rise out of me. The attempts are laughable, and that's really all I can say about it.
Triple MMM, who signed the mortgage? Did they force you to sign it or did you sign it willingly, regardless of the terms? Did you analyze the terms? Did you make sure that it was a mortgage that you can afford?
For what it's worth though, some of the details regarding the lending industry also bothers me, and I've blogged about it quite a bit as well (particularly the subprime derivatives and the lack of transparency).
However, I must disagree with the argument that this is about fear over something that I do not understand. Quite the contrary, the premise is very simple and ultimately flawed, and using this blanket criticism out of context not only falls flat, but it really says something about those who are making such criticisms.
Yes, I recognize that some have made money, and I am happy for you, especially for those who are being nice about this. However, I also think it's important to point out that all MLM and ponzi schemes have made money for somebody, and still that doesn't make the program any less riskier or flawed. Even organized crime makes money. Please remember that just because some people have made money does not prove that something is a good idea to begin with.
And yes, there are those who also complain that I am not giving the program the fair chance. That's a fair argument at least. However, I can't begin to tell you how many times in the past people have said that to me about their program, only for me to relent, join their seminars, take a chance with a bit of money, only to find the program fail eventually. I've already heard the 14 Eagles pitch and read the promotional material. The only step left is to put up the money, which I do not want to do.
Finally, to those who are being nice or at least objective about this, even if you disagree with me, I thank you for the nice gesture.
July 12th, 2010 at 02:22 pm
-You (disservice yourself) when you spin facts
-You (continue to misrepresent-yourself) as you continue to misrepresent information . . .
-This is private program . . .
-It's not for (everyone)
-This is not a business . . .
-This is not a company
-This is not a investment . . .
-There are no percentages regardless of your spin. . .
-7-10 homes in this country are 60 days from living in the street. . . . ( in one of the richest counties in the world ) . . .
-I have seen the poor bail out millionaires and multi-millionaires . . .
-Jobs were lobbied/sold out of this country 30-40yrs ago . . . .
-Gas is at $3.00+ and going up . . .
-I have seen 911, Katrina, & oil spills, Hattie earthquakes, massive forcloseures. . .
-I have seen young men & women soldiers gladly give there life, etc . . .
-Habitat for Humanity: people helping people for a new home . . .
-Quakers Barn Raisings . . .
-Giving food to Charities food pantries . . .
-Feeding families on Thanksgiving, . . .
-Feeding the Worlds Poor
-$2 donation (freely), to 3 possible strangers,
- donations forwarded in all steps are from donations received . . . ( not out of your pocket ). . .
- not advocated to give out of your pocket, but you can . . .
- Pass step 1, it’s not advocated to give out of your pocket . . . ( know need to )
- Help 2, and donate out of the donations received
-I’ve given birthday gifts, mother’s day gifts, valentines day gifts, fathers day gifts, graduation gifts, tithes, offerings, police charities, feed the hungry, given to those with a hand out on the streets, Christmas gifts and have given cash gifts for each celebratory occasion for 35+ yrs. and will continue to give an I am not a company or non profit.
Now I can't donate $2 to 3 possible starngers WOW!
Dig the well before the water is needed . . .
July 12th, 2010 at 03:54 pm
( WOW!! )Instead of complaining . . .
Someone/s presents a ("tiny solution")
and the dobbermans just rip it apart without providing another solution . . . WOW ( cool )
Lets just all talk about the problems, like the 24hr News . . .
( this countries challeges are Decades older than 5 weeks )
This program is only 5 weeks old, dangit, I guess this is enough time to get it right, since there are "enough" good jobs and no massive layoffs, no credit pimps . . . and no unemployment, no massive foreclosures and ALL IS Perfect on the other side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Biff or Billy this private solution aint the solution for everyone, . . .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-$2 donation (freely), to 3 possible strangers &
donations forwarded in all steps are from donations received . . . ( not out of your pocket ). . .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You mean to tell me,
( all this fuss )
all boils down to,
a one time donation of,
$2 to 3 possible strangers,
then donating out of the donations received,
paying 44 cents to $1.00 to
send a donation, instead of 44 cent to $29+.
and being able track it all
for a LIFETIME (one time fee)
of less than $11
and privately inviting 2
who'll do the same. ( WOW )
GEEPERS i'm scared LOL!
Just because some people have received large donations does not prove that something is necessarily bad or good.
Seek Solutions
July 12th, 2010 at 04:15 pm
My prediction is that BA is going to be spending a lot of time in this post refuting random people that have stopped by that would prefer you not know the truth. By far the best way to judge advice is to take a look from who it is coming from. Take a look back through BA's blog and you'll see high quality financial advice all the way through. As for the pro commenters with no way to tell who they really are or what hidden agenda they have, I would advise taking all their comments with a (very, very large) grain of salt
As for me and my qualifications, I am only the person that runs this personal finance site
July 12th, 2010 at 05:33 pm
Either way, this is nothing compared to that time when I talked about traffic tickets. Haha, now that was funny.
GET-HONE-FACTS, the only thing I can say is that 14 Eagles isn't entirely driven by charity. Rather, it is driven by a pyramid scheme where money is "donated" upwards towards existing members, regardless of what their charitable "needs" are. That's just what it is....
If you really want to help people, there are lots and lots of very good charities out there where your donated money will go to people truly in need. And if you are one of those in need of help, please look them up and ask them to help you!
No matter how you guys spin this, a real charity organization gives to those who need it without expecting anything back, whereas 14 Eagles give only to privates members above them, and their incentive is the potential that you too can profit like them!
A TINY SOLUTION, you're trying to cry foul about the relatively small amount of money involved, but as I've already stated, it's not the amount that matters. What matters is how it works, or in my eyes, does not work.
Come on guys, this is very simple. I'm just one man. I'm just speaking my mind. If you guys are completely right about about all this, and I'm completely wrong, then why let little ole me bother you? Just ignore me and go about your money-making business.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:13 am
I received a question about whether 14 eagles was a scam
July 16th, 2010 at 01:54 pm
It never ceases to amaze me that the folks who really need an activity/opportunity like this are the ones that cause the most grief for themselves and everybody else! UNBELEIVABLE!
I have been an Eaglet since June 13th and have had nothing but heartwarming experiences with 14 Eagles. Slowly, I have been successful and the gifts do come in the mail from other eaglets!
I have been sharing this activity in my travels with my warm market friends and even the people standing in front of Wal-Mart and other stores with their hands out panhandling money from the public.
I have taken the time and stopped and asked what the persons problem was that caused him to stand out in 95 DEGREE HEAT and beg for money!
The two that I met told me that they would love to work but they were laid off from the housing market of fixing and repairing the insides of homes in this area.
So what did I do? I offered to give him a $6.00 gift that he could either have the time of his life with or (as in life) he could make a choice and take the gift that I gave him (Paid It Forward) and bless three other people with it! It was his choice after I explained how 14 Eagles worked and was all about!
The result was since he was out of work and had all the time in the world to share his new found activity with the rest of the unemployed he new, he had a new lease on life to be productive and is now helping bless more people with his new good fortune!
In other words, I TAUGHT HIM HOW TO FISH instead of just giving him Money/GIFT so he can starve again in a few days!
My question is, where are the employed people I meet everyday and why aren't they stopping to offer a solution on helping these people to be productive and do something with their lives?
Play time is over folks! The world is changing rapidly (for the worst) and the goody goody negative people are becoming part of the problem instead of the solution!
I also am working with an 83 year old friend of mine that just realized that he has come out of his depression since joining 14 Eagles a month ago and is now trying to make an impact on the seniors who might listen.
Very few do though as they are in the (To Good to Be True) mode and are doomed to poverty because that is what they have been brainwashed into by our so called officials!
Feed me! Feed me! I'm Hungry...is the main jest I have been observing along with all the local food pantries that are closing and thousands of people in the newspapers are saying "WE Don't Know What We Are Going To Do"!
In my local newspaper a few days ago 100 families a day do not know what they are going to do when the local pantry goes out of business because there are not enough funds or volunteers to keep up with the growing demand of hungry people who are down on their luck or lazy not to try and do something for themselves! This activity would save every one of them if they would listen...but they won't!
I want to throw up every time I get a response about the ponzi/pyramid thing from ignorant people and pastors that I meet also!
They wouldn't know a real blessing if it walked up to them and tapped them on the shoulder!
In their heads they are expecting hundreds and thousands of dollars from either old money inheritances from their aging members or flowing down from heaven to save their ever growing bankrupt churches!
The church that backed out of an activity like this did not do their church or the future members any great service by bending and buring their heads in the sand!
The biggest ponzi going now is the way our country is being run now and the public is buying it hook, line and sinker thinking the system will save them!
The Big Boys Don’t Care! Get It?
Enjoy Your Poverty Negatorians!
P.S. Always Remember,
Profits/Gifts are Better Than Wages Any Day!
July 20th, 2010 at 08:47 pm
July 20th, 2010 at 09:09 pm
July 21st, 2010 at 06:16 am
I would like to respond to you, but your response, to be blunt, is filled with more of the same kind of incoherent rambling I've seen so far from the kinds of financially ignorant people that would drink a pyramid scheme kool-aid in the first place.
I mean, have you truly taught another man how to fish? Not to me. You have only introduced him to a sort of con game to get other people to willingly hand fish over to him. That is not true fishing skills.
foxy and kelly:
Feel free to participate and to continue to participate in 14 eagles if you wish. Unlike many of the 14 Eagles supporters here, I'm not here to tell others what to do. I'm here to simply speak my mind, and very simply, I don't agree with such a program.
July 21st, 2010 at 10:41 am
If I go get a job (Just Over Broke) flipping hamburgers will I ever advance and make more success for myself than the guy that hired me? No, but if I share an opportunity whether it is a gifting program or a MLM vitamin program, I have the potential to bring in more prosperity than the person that invited me to the activity. Makes sense to me to get rewarded for my personal efforts if I choose to share and WORK!
That's why networking is not called net-sleeping-in or net-fooling-around and expecting riches to come ones way by doing NOTHING which is now common place here in the American culture.
People have become spoiled, lazy and complacent.
The worst is yet to come!
July 21st, 2010 at 11:19 am
That said, I do not agree that this is the reason why we have high unemployment or poverty rate. People spent more than they can afford. That's the bottom. Doesn't matter if they're an entrepreneur, a 9 to 5 cubicle rat, or in a pyramid scheme.
Also, I do not agree that 14 eagles is necessarily the solution to high unemployment or poverty. One can also get a job and work their way up, or start a business through legitimate avenues.
In the end, it doesn't make sense to equate either doing 14 Eagles or doing literally nothing. We can all do SOMETHING to better ourselves. We should. But I would argue that 14 Eagles is NOT the only way, but more importantly, there are much better ones out there.
July 21st, 2010 at 12:21 pm
July 26th, 2010 at 01:19 pm
July 29th, 2010 at 03:51 pm
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:10 am
As I have been introduced to cash-gifting recently, I am intrigued with how different groups of people respond to it. There is a negative force & a positive force in all things. I have been astonished as to why certain people are so threatened by it. I have finally figured it out why a select group of people are actually “offended” by such good & charitable works…and yes…I said “charitable” because that’s exactly what it is.
Sure, there may be those “gifting” who let the inherent nature of greed get the best of them; who may be more interested in “getting” than giving”. So what do you propose we do… stick probes to us cash-gifters to see who really has the best of intentions? Arrest those who actually feel delight when they receive the cash gifts? How absurd is this? Here is the simple fact: It is our natural, inherent, and moreover, we… “The People” have a Constitutional Right do certain things. We have the right to assemble together and to gift one another, and to do it lawfully! The mere fact that many cash-gifters are afraid to divulge their identity should scare ever freedom-loving citizen, even if you are a cash-gifting hater!
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:10 am
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:13 am
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:15 am
Wake Up America! This is a war not just against these inherently bitter, fruitless, unsuccessful MLM’ers. More importantly, this is a war on our constitutional rights. Both the MLM’ers & the IRS have one common interest: to scare & bully you into hiding and have a strong desire to infringe upon our god-given right to assemble together and help one another, but for dissimilar reasons, both of which is driven by GREED. The government/IRS: they want more money from you (in the form of taxes) because evidently they aren’t getting enough to fund their outright reckless spending and the UNPRECEDENTED fraudulent govt. expenditures that we witness today. These MLM’ers (or “cash-gifting haters”) are threatened because they want your business and do not want anything to stand in the way of that, even if it does mean that your life could be changed for the better. All you MLM’ers who’ve let your greed override your love of freedom aught to be ashamed of yourselves!
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:17 am
There are many scams out there, and perhaps even in the cash gifting realm, but here is the truth that you will hardly find anywhere else because yes…people are afraid to share their identity. There is no secret about that. Look at all the scare tactics these people use. Here is the truth: The large majority of those that participate in cash gifting are successful! I am witnessing it with my very own eyes, and I must make a confession…it is exciting (Is that “illegal” to feel excited about it?)! Many are afraid to share it in fear that their “door will get kicked in”, as the MLMWatchdog puts it (a little extreme, don’t you think?). Hey…Isn’t this how the days of Hitler began? First, they start small by instilling fear into people; when a particular group of citizens with an agenda co-mingle with the government with a commonly shared interest. Then, the natural rights of the people are infringed upon. This is a slippery slope that history has seen before. Even more frightening is that we currently have an American president who has relentlessly dismissed and outwardly defies The U.S. Constitution that is meant to protect us and our rights as U.S. citizens. People do what they must to survive. Ordinary, average people are struggling to feed their families and put a roof over their head right now. Perhaps you personally may not be in this dire position yet, but a vast number of Americans are in big, big trouble as of the date I write this. We have a president now with an unwavering determination, to kill the American economy (and if anybody thinks this is by accident, or for those of you who have drunken the coolade that It’s Bush’s Fault, you are kidding yourselves and need to wake up!). Gifting works! It’s helping many more people and would help even more people if more would take an unwavering stand about this and stand together to defend our most basic human rights. Hey… all you MLM’ers, people would love to buy your overpriced shampoo, or your vitamins, or your groceries if only they had the means to. But you know what? Meeting our family’s basic needs takes precedence. And this is what many families across the nation are down to now.
When our founders founded this country, we didn’t have any “stimulus packages” and there were no divisive political community organizations to be heard of, like ACORN for example, which cater to helping a select group of people (which our tax dollars are funding by the way). Even our very own government… who is supposed to protect us and our futures, have lost the trust of most Americans now. People are literally scared and anxious about what is to come of our country. Many of these “cash-gifting haters” who paradoxically, will publicize their own Christian faith in an effort to steer you clear away from cash-gifting, will ridicule the fact that many cash-gifters openly and unapologetically declare their Christianity. These “cash-gifting haters” will mock them to make it appear to the uninformed that those Christian givers are “using” their faith as a means to enlist others. Perhaps. I can’t tell you what is inside the mind and heart of every person and neither can anybody else, but I can tell you this: Cash Gifting is the most Christian-Like act you can participate in! And I make no bones about that. I’ve learned more about myself and I have a newly-found awareness about my thoughts and feelings as I do give to others since my participation in cash-gifting. More than any one single thing I have gained through my participation, Personal Growth is at the top.
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:20 am
August 2nd, 2010 at 08:41 am
No, I'm not hater. I just don't think it's a good idea. The fact that you think civil disagreement makes me a hater makes you the illogical and presumptuous one.
No, I don't feel threatened. I don't know why simply disagreeing with someone automatically implies that I feel threatened. I mean, why would I feel that way? Doesn't makes sense.
Mentioning references of probes, arrests, and the Constitution is being misleading with hyperbole. Come on, really?
And why do you think detractors are angry, malicious, and have an indignant nature about them? Is it truly angry, malicious, and indignant to simply disagree? Did you really do true, scientific research on this?
Wow, and the diatribe just keeps going and going. It's kind of sad. After reading your comments, I don't see how you can make your case about this. But if you have any specific issue you'd like me to address, then let me know and I will do so.
g2k2:
Thanks you for the offer. At least that seems a lot more reasonable of a response than your fellow supporters.
But no, I must politely decline. I've already made the argument several times that just because something can work, it still doesn't mean it's a good idea.
The basic premise, if I must repeat it yet again, is that for you to make back $6, someone else has to give up $6. And the source of that $6 is from the people below you, paying you. So for someone to have earned more than that, it means others below you have collectively lost that same amount. And for them to break even and even make a profit, it means that more people below them has to be recruited to give those below you.
Bottom line, pyramid schemes are an unsustainable model.
And yes, I did not get the details correct earlier on the math. That's because I was mistaken on the information I've received. However, it was only on the details, and such details don't invalid the whole premise, thought I realize that it only complicates my position on this since many supporters that don't want to hear what I think on this and will only use that to show how wrong I am.
When it's all said and done though, I don't get why you guys are so fired up over this.
August 2nd, 2010 at 09:09 am
Certainly do your homework about which cash gifting communities you choose to join if you choose to do so. I can’t speak for All the various cash-gifting communities out there, but I want to defend the notion that “only people at the very top benefit”; or those who have joined earlier vs. later. This is simply not true, at least with the particular community I involve myself with. No one person has a special unfair advantage over another. I have quickly learned that not all cash-gifting communities are the same. You must do your own research to really know that you are making the right step. Just as with anything else, there is the good and the bad to all things. There are great cash-gifting communities out there helping many people overcome their struggles, you’ve just got to search to find the right ones. If you don’t choose to participate in the most charitable, freedom-inspiring, and plentiful act that I’ve recently discovered, why then ruin it for everyone else? What is inside the hearts of these “cash-gifting haters” that would prompt them to divide people, to provoke such hatred and disdain towards others, many of whom are literally in “survival-mode” right now and just trying to feed their families? Whatever it is, it certainly isn’t “god-like”.
August 2nd, 2010 at 09:20 am
your comment that "just because something can work, it doesn't mean it's a good idea."...is probably the most unintelligent & foolish assertion I've ever heard.
Cash Gifting Works People! What works can change your life. Sometimes, it really is that simple.
August 2nd, 2010 at 09:56 am
Now that you know that I am looking out for your interest, I still stand by my assertion that it is a scam.
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:23 am
Also, why is my comment the most unintelligent thing you've ever heard? Quite the contrary, I think the inability to grasp that concept is well, telling about someone's lack of intelligence....
"Can work" means work for now, for a short while, despite being able to dodge the risks and the odds against it. It does happen. Whether people win the lottery or manage to get away with murder, it does happen!
And yet, neither lotteries nor murder makes it a good idea even if you somehow make it work for you. This includes the very concept of pyramid schemes.
Seriously now, this isn't that difficult is it?
August 3rd, 2010 at 12:26 am
You Really Do Have "More" Broken Than Your Broken Arrow!
August 3rd, 2010 at 12:54 am
August 3rd, 2010 at 12:09 pm
August 3rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm
I've already explained this, but I guess I need to keep doing it: This is only a blog. I am only speaking my mind. As such, it is not my policy to tell people what I think others should or should not do with their money.
If you wish to join 14 Eagles, by all means.
If you wish to NOT join 14 Eagles, by all means.
Let me say this again: This is only a blog. I am only speaking my mind.
That said, yes, I will not join 14 Eagles. I've also already made my case several times over why I think it's a bad idea. Feel free to disagree of course, but because I think it's a bad idea, therefore, I will not join. That's all there is to it.
But thank you for a fair-enough comment. Hope you have a nice day.
August 4th, 2010 at 01:36 pm
So, here it is (originally posted yesterday, Aug. 4th at 12pm but was deleted from the Saving Advice sister-forum because they are trying to silence the truth…
This is a 2-sided debate - Let's hear BOTH SIDES:
Broken Arrow (who also posts here),
I would love to explain to you how it actually works. It would be much easier to simply say, "14 Eagles works, and here is why:"…, but it seems like many others (see above) have tried to help you understand. Sometimes in life, Broken Arrow, you can rationalize & debate the heck out of something to the point that nothing is there. Sometimes in life, you really won’t understand something by talking (or blogging) about it, but rather by actually experiencing it. Please don’t misunderstand me Broken Arrow; I am not trying to persuade you to join the community. I don’t understand why anyone would even invite you to the community. I sure don’t want you in mine. Please don’t take offense…I just don’t care for ignorant people, or the “un-teachable”. This is the easiest thing I’ve ever done to get people to want to join, so why would I waste my time on the un-teachable, you know? The reason I am on this board is surely not to convince the close-minded, but to help those who are trying to get factual information about it & to help them understand that they are looking in the wrong place if they are reading on this forum. You guys just don’t have any idea what you are talking about. Why is this the easiest thing I’ve ever done?...because all it takes is a measly $6 to see. In fact probably ½ the people I invite are skeptical and only try it because it is only $6, but then they begin to get excited as the begin to “see the light”, as opposed to many MLMs, where you get all hyped up and think your gonna make a million after attending some motivating seminar, but then all your left with is a closet full of shampoo & less $ in your wallet. The other ½ of the members I’ve invited actually come to me and ask me when they find out what I’m doing. So, surely, I’d be wasting my time trying to convince you of anything. Even if I had you convinced, I’m not so sure I’d invite you to my gifting community anyway because my community has an exciting, generous, and a humble energy to it that I want to protect & preserve. And I love it!!!
Since your fellow college apprentice jpg7n16 would like to fiddle around with definitions, allow me to help you understand what "ignorant" actually means:
From the Dictionary.com website: “Ignorant”
Quote:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. Uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.
Ignorance is not a great attribute to have. Ignorance; or a Lack of knowledge about an issue you choose to quarrel about is even worse. You might find it valuable for you two to learn a little humility. Do they teach that at your college? Oh, I don’t think they teach that at colleges. That’s a personal attribute you’ve got to gain somewhere else. Search, and ye will find. There are many great communities out there that can help you grow in this particular area. I’m afraid you won’t get that from any book, or debate.
These guys either don’t know what a pyramid scheme is or don’t know anything about The 14 Eagles community (ie, ignorance). Of course, it might be easy to jump to that conclusion because if you look at the members who’ve EXCERSIZED THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to assemble together to help one another on paper (or in a matrix form), it might resemble a pyramid. Oh, the simple-minded.
For all those trying to understand it, I understand your trying to do the right thing, but goodness gracious… For all the time you spend on this board, trying to get information from these ignorant folks who have no idea what they are talking about, you could have made that $6 100X over and then you would have known for yourself a long time ago. I always encourage those seeking to know to do your own homework. If you can’t take the time to do that, than maybe this isn’t the thing for you. If you were invited, take the time to READ, study, and understand any literature you may have been provided with before coming here to the land of the miserable. You’ll get a lot more factual information by spending your time that way.
The administrator of the Saving Advice website who calls himself Mr. “Disney Steve” alongside many other identities I’m sure, keeps removing my posts because they don't want you, a person trying to learn more information about this great community, to get the real facts. What should that tell us all? This is a one-sided argument here & you are looking in the WRONG place to get real, factual information about gifting! If they don’t like it, they’ll remove your posts. And even worse, LOOK: perhaps “The Blessed” on the other forum makes a good point that our god-given constitutional rights are under siege here and that is truly what is at the heart of this issue here that is being provoked from all those with such disdain towards those that choose to participate in gifting. Everyone should open their eyes and see what is REALLY going on here. All these people can do is try to scare you and instill fear in you to steer you away from the most benevolent, plentiful, Christian-inspired, and patriotic act available to anyone who seeks for something better. Well, here it is America… look at the above post this morning (on their siser-forum) from Mr. “GrimJack” (unless he deleted that too after perhaps realizing that the statement doesn’t help his argument)…he is “dropping a dime with the FBI using what info he can about me” to turn me in for exercising my constitutional right to assemble with a community of people to share with one another. These people continually expose themselves and their real intentions with every post they make! You think this is about having your best interest at heart? Even more frightening is that we currently have an American President determined to defy the U.S. Constitution, meant to protect us and our rights as U.S. citizens, who just delights in little uninformed, ignorant & ever-so-shallow “college-goers” who just don’t know any better; who are willing stoop to a New Low to “turn you in”, an ordinary citizen just trying to survive & find a way to feed your children in this deliberately-killed economy (& if you think this is by accident or if you have drunken the Kool-Aid that It’s Bushes Fault, you are kidding yourselves and need to WAKE UP as to what is happening to this country of ours). This is A NEW LOW that I really didn’t think I’d actually witness on any of these forums, but HERE IS IT EVERYONE TO SEE! HERE IT IS!...Let’s see if he deletes this too? Hmmmmmm.
I am a proud American. I know my constitutional rights, and Mr. “GrimJack”…you don’t scare me…you only make my faith and resolve stronger.
So… now, it’ll be interesting to see if it is TRULY about the “rules” as to why these guys are trying to silence me & keep DELETING my contributions to this forum, or if they simply want to silence me because they are trying to hide the truth from all of you seeking to know about the greatness of The 14 Eagles community.
August 4th, 2010 at 01:49 pm
Yes, you were banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts and pretending to be different people as well as not following the rules to not make personal attacks on people. This is BA's blog, so he gets to decide if he wants to keep your comment up or not, but there was most definitely cause for you being banned. I have said time and again, if you are willing to argue the topic without making it personal and stick to a single account, then I am more than happy to let you back in.
August 4th, 2010 at 02:26 pm
That's actually encouraging to know! Maybe there aren't all these 14 Eagle haters out there after all, or at least to the extent we are all being made to believe. They are all the same few people under different disguises with an agenda (& way too much time on their hands). Interesting???
People...I'm afraid you won't get a fair debate going over there at that other Saving Advice forum titled "14 Eagles Scam". If you say something they disagree with, they'll just remove your posts. Your safe to get the truth over here, because even if the person running this blog disagrees w/ 14 Eagles, at least he has the decency not to manipulate the environment and will allow all sides of the issue be heard.
August 4th, 2010 at 02:41 pm
And although you won't acknowledge this, but your post was deleted for making personal attacks on people using unfounded and illogical accusations, not because you disagree with us. In that same thread, you can see that other supporters' posts were not deleted. Why is that? Are you sure it's because there's a conspiracy to silence the program, or is it simply because you're attacking people instead of addressing the issue?
I also wonder if you're going to be able to accept that simple fact?
Anyway, lucky for us all, you have decided to copy and paste the deleted posts from the forum onto here, where the world can then see and know why you have been deleted and banned.
And although Jeffrey is being gracious when he says that it's my blog (because the truth is, I'm living under their generosity in this blog space), I won't delete it. If you feel that strongly about showing the world why you're crazy, then so be it. Unfortunately for you though, all this is just going to hurt not only your credibility, but the program's credibility as well.
August 4th, 2010 at 02:48 pm
??? Do you know how forums work? I own the website savingadvice.com. I am the admin along with Nate (he does all the webmastering). DisneySteve is a moderator on the website. Because I can't be on the website 24/7, I trust him to clean up the forums of spam and make sure everything is working correctly. There are other moderators as well. Broken Arrow is a long time member and happens to also run this blog. Just because you got caught creating multiple accounts doesn't mean that that is what everyone does.
Anyone that looks through forums can see that we welcome disagreement. We simply insist that the arguments be restricted to the topic and not throwing out personal attacks.
Again, you do a classic move by those that are unable to argue the topic - start blaming other things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Even if we all were the same person (which, I will clarify again, we aren't) it wouldn't change anything toward the truth of the arguments each of us have made because they are based on the program and why is doesn't work.
If all of us are so wrong, show me exactly why 14 Eagles does work and where my logic is wrong (not it's only $6 bucks, it does because I say it does, etc).
I have been a personal finance writer for going on 10 years (feel free to google my name and you will see I have written articles that have appeared on aol, yahoo finance, thestreet and many other major online outlets. My job is to teach people how to manage their money wisely. That includes letting people know when things don't add up like with 14 Eagles.
August 4th, 2010 at 04:59 pm
And let me ask you something 'Teacher'...if you are really interested in helping someone save their $, why not spend your time fighting all the investment schemes that go on out there that actually do ruin lives, where people are vulnerable to losing thousands upon thousands of dollars? But rather, you spend your time trying to fight something (something that is good just to mention) where people are subject to losing ALL of $6. As someone who gives financial advice, have you ever shared the good old adage to others that "Time is Money"? Here is some good advice you might want to consider sharing with your clientele if you are a financial advisor worth taking advice from...take the hours that you spend on this forum chatting...multiply that by minimum wage (not sure what it is now, but for example sake, let's say it is $7). So, if you spent 5 hours on this forum this week, that will equate to $35 you would have made this week if you just get off your hiney and get a J-O-B. You would only then, have to take $6 of that to see if this really works or not.
And by the way, thank you for giving the others here the courtesy to hear the other side of the issue at hand and not silencing my voice here as you did on your other forum. I will keep fighting the issue so that people can get the truth, until you realize that you are miserably losing this debate to the point that you have to silence me again. And when that happens, EVERYONE here will know it, and I will be sure you and your website is exposed for it (a website of which I’m beginning to question the fairness & credibility of)!... for manipulating this environment and silencing people because they are guilty of having different views than you; for which you erroneously classify the contributions being made from those who oppose your views as "spam" & "personal attacks".
August 4th, 2010 at 05:23 pm
Has it ever occurred to you that you are exactly the kind of person you are accusing others of being? That, in truth, our view towards others is very often a reflection of the self?
But regardless of how tangents like these pan out, either way, it still does not address the real issue, which is why you think 14 Eagles is a good idea. Please, for heaven sake, focus on that. Otherwise, what's the point of all of your rambling?
August 5th, 2010 at 07:47 am
August 5th, 2010 at 08:29 am
As for this "unique skill" that you want to imply, it really doesn't matter what it is. I am simply who I am, and I don't need anyone else to explain to me who I am.
Besides, I think it speaks volumes when people prefer to shift the discussion away from the subject itself, and towards the writer instead. I think that shows poor intellect and mannerism, and that will only hurt your credibility, not mine.
So, why don't we go back to the subject itself? Simply answer this:
How is 14 Eagles sustainable?
August 5th, 2010 at 11:31 am
No, out of all seriousness though Mr. Broke...you keep mentioning that you want to talk about the issues and then you ramble on about yourself in the very same breadth. It's very difficult to debate the 'issue at hand' with someone that makes a hobby out of debate, and not because they are sincerely interested in understanding the facts about a particular issue. You can sit on the sidelines and rationalize life all you want while we are all being blessed. I would like to debate the issues w/ you sir, but I wouldn't know where to begin with you. You are so wrapped up into yourself; there are a lot of layers I'd have to break through before we could even get down to the actual issues. The Law of Attraction is certainly at work here; all the Jeffrey/Broken Arrow supporters are all too broke to round up ALL of $6. I suppose I'm attracted to you guys because I just get delight out of exposing people like you guys. But, I surely ain't broke, especially since I discovered the 14 Eagles community. I must say...I love a good debate myself, although there is no debate here. These guys (Both Mr. Broken, Jeffrey, and about 2 other characters on his (or) their other Saving Advice 14 E.-bashing forum that I know of) have been known to manipulate these threads, and will delete anything they don't agree with as they did with me and another forum contributor said they had done it to him as well. Coincidence that all these characters have access to the administrative back-end of his/their website to remove your threads? Are you all the same person? Or do you just run in the same circle? HMMMMM.
Here is a debate worth having? Can anyone here (and I mean other than Mr. Broke, Jeffrey, and the other characters who have a vested interest in this website) tell me if the legitimacy of this forum is worth discussing, whether or not this is an environment that all sides of the issue are fairly be presented? I'm sure this is something that people, those who are searching for truthful & balanced information, would expect from of a credible discussion forum. Or might that considered a “personal attack” to inquire about that? If anyone else reading this was silenced here as well, whose threads may have been deleted, please come forward and post it (It'll probably be deleted again, but that's ok...I'm doing a little experiment)
On a much lighter note…
RedFeathers,
How long have you been participating in the 14 E. community? Do you find it as easy as me to get people to want to join? I’ve only been doing it 4-5 weeks now and it’s truly the coolest, greatest thing I’ve ever done! I’m not sure what church the guy who started this thread goes to, but almost my entire church has joined or will join. And they love it as much as I do. It’s spreading like wildfire, which is really cool because so many people in my side of town have been out of work and out of work for a long time and have had no means off supporting themselves & their families!
I swore once (after a bad MLM experience) that I’d never do another thing again that had to do with talking to others, or inviting them to anything. Now, I am like Ms. Social-bug. I don’t even care about rejection because for once, I can actually say I ‘Believe’ in something. I didn’t at first. I thought my hubby got sucked into an MLM or something @ first. But a little faith and $6…wow…goes a long way! I don’t know how to express it without sounding like a cheesy MLM person, but this truly has changed my outlook on life, and that’s not a hyped-up trying to get people on board statement, it really is true. I would like to see more people on here (& real people…not like “Broken” people or people w/ a vested interest in this website whose sole purpose is to sway people one way, with an agenda) give their positive stories about how 14 E. has helped them.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:44 am
August 5th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
As for the only sentence that actually addressed the issue: "How is 14eagles sustainable,First of all its not a pyramid,your wrong,the secret to sustain is built into the program,each eagle family has to preform a specific task,and that one unique task is communication,and ?"
That really doesn't help your case at all. The website FAQ was more informative than your comment. Besides, even without divulging details, you know be able to explain why 14 Eagles is sustainable.
Let me give you an example: McDonald's. The business is sustainable because they have a product line that people conveniently enjoy, at a good price, and with a large retail distribution. There. See? Wasn't that easy? Saying the "Secret to sustain is built into the program" doesn't really help you at all.
But go ahead. Call me more names, because I'm beginning to think you can't answer that question, so that's all you've got left.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Look, believe it or not, but I can delete any comments I want on here. But guess what? I'm not. I'm allowing you to be heard. I'm not manipulating or shutting down anybody. You are being heard. So, why are you still stuck on that?
As for questioning the legitimacy of the forums, yes, that would be an acceptable topic you can email Jeffrey directly if you want. However, when in the same comment, you are willing to call me "Mr. Broke" and "Broken Person", should it actually be surprising that you got kicked from the forums? Look, just stick to the issue. And if you can't, you get kicked. It's that simple.
I also love the way you've got me all figured out with all these humorous claims about me and my life. It's really amusing if only it wasn't so long-winded. Ah well, keep going if you want. You're only digging a hole for yourself.
August 5th, 2010 at 03:04 pm
Cash gifting is only for like minded individuals. Promoting this type of program to unexperienced and unlike minded individual/marketers is crazy. I owe a lot my success online to cash gifting and this is why I have generated over 60,000 in 1 year.
With the skills I have learned from cash gifting, I have successfully grown my traveling MLM to over 200 people in about 7 months. Marketing is the key guys, its not the program. Cash Gifting is 100% legal! Call the IRS yourself. Head out to a cash gifting program and read about how it works and call the IRS to see for yourself. That is what I did.
Hopefully you guys will understand how it works. But if not, who cares, I will still keep marketing and building my empire. Good luck to all of you!
August 5th, 2010 at 03:21 pm
August 6th, 2010 at 05:32 am
Either way, I appreciate the comment at least not being derogatory, and wish you well, even if we disagree.
Redfeather, words such as me being "negative,self centered,and argumentative" are not considered factual, but are in FACT, opinions. However, your inability to make such a distinction is exactly why you are only hurting your own credibility and not mine. And what's really sad is that this is like grade school stuff.
Additionally, you constantly refer me as "BentArrow", which I think is just hilarious, and really, it's just sad for you.
With all that, it also makes me wonder if you're even mentally capable of something as simple as sticking to the issue? Let's go back to my original question at hand, which STILL has NOT been answered.
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?"
August 6th, 2010 at 06:58 am
To Tammy:I have been with 14 eagles 3 weeks and a few days,I will be going to third level soon,My focus has been else where,i'm involved in some very large programs that take alot of focusing,I need more people,I'm in the process of launching 14eagles on one of the huge SEO groups.Well thats it.Tammy Make It A Great Day and to all God Bless.Redfeather Checking Out
August 6th, 2010 at 07:16 am
And yes, I am happy that we are finally getting somewhere, although you still did not answer the question. But to help you out, I will explain this YET again:
People are indeed what makes a pyramid scheme "work". New people to be exact, giving up their money to fund those above them. It is as I have already said from the very beginning.
And yet, that's not sustainable. There are only going to be so many people you're going to be able to invite into the program. Sooner or later, that's going to have to end somewhere, with the vast majority at the bottom losing money in order for others above them to profit.
Therefore, that is why 14 Eagles is unsustainable.
Now, I ask again:
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?"
To simply say (PEOPLE) isn't more of an answer than saying, (BURGERS) makes a successful fast food business model.
August 6th, 2010 at 10:48 am
ghall46...I love the reference to "broken arrow" as 'bent arrow"...That is funny!!! I can't help it but to laugh at that...BENT & "BROKE". Of all seriousness, thank you for the humor... sometimes a good laugh is all you need to make your day run smoothly.You notice a pattern here...
now, Mr. Broke is accusing myself, redfeathers, and ghall46, and probably everyone else on here that disagrees with him as "calling him names" being being "attacked". Hey Mr. broke...is it any wonder that everyone here is making the same observation about you? Perhaps these observations about you are not "personal attacks" but are true???
Mr. Broke...Did you ever talk to your boss, Jeffrey, to see if perhaps he'd offer you a $6 bonus so you can do something good for yourself? I think you deserve it. There is no reason you should be as Broke as you are because you've been working overtime on here. You deserve a bonus. (and just to be clear...don't misconstrue this as name calling...this is something you call yourself Broken Arrow). Being a victim doesn't get you anywhere in life!
August 6th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
And while you may say that you're not calling names, that is exactly what name-calling is. Wow, please tell me you are smart enough to actually understand this, because even a 10 year old can get it.
But alright, I'll be nice and try to explain this just this once. Pay attention. When you want to address someone as "Mr.", you typically use their last name. In this case, you would call me "Mr. Arrow", not "Mr Broke" which you most likely have created to be mean and imply that I am broke, because, as you stated above, you mistakenly think I can't come up with $6. Nor is it "Broken Person". It's "Broken Arrow", or if you want, just BA would be fine, since it's short.
Understand? Now that I've explained it, if you keep calling me any more derogatory names, we will all know that you are either doing deliberately to be mean, or you're mentally retarded.
Now, instead of all this ridiculous tangents, why don't we focus on the issue at hand? It's a simple question. Focus, Tammy:
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?"
August 7th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Or, Jeffrey...too busy being Mr. Broke that you forgot about your other personality???
August 7th, 2010 at 07:42 pm
But never mind that. You STILL have not answered my question.
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?"
August 11th, 2010 at 01:33 pm
The real debate I'd like to have with you and your boss, Jeffrey, which is at the heart of the issue I might add… is about the fairness (or lack thereof) of this particular website. Mr. Jeffrey: I would like to know the distinction between my observation that Mr. Broken Arrow is ignorant to the issue he is trying to debate as compared with Mr. Broken Arrow’s observation (wrong but nevertheless, it is his opinion) that I am either “mean” or “mentally retarded”. I think everyone reading this board deserves some clarification why my threads are being deleted and why Mr. Broken Arrow’s threads are not. Everyone reading this deserves to know whether or not they are looking in the right environment to get factual, evenly-weighted information about the Great 14 Eagles Community.
Mr. Jeffrey, could you please clarify that one thing for all of us?
August 11th, 2010 at 02:31 pm
As for non-biased, factual information, let's hear it.
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?"
It's a simple question. How about just answering it?
As for everything else, you know what? I've tried and tried and tried to explain it to you. You either don't get it, or you don't want to get it. That's fine though. You're just hurting your own credibility.
I've given you and others plenty of room to speak, but now, you're just coming up with the same old, tired complaints. Nothing else new under the sun.
So, everybody listen up!
From this point forward, I'm going to start deleting everything that is NOT related to 14 Eagles. I'll give all responders a collective 3 chances before I start deleting, BUT, realize this:
Everyone is STILL welcome to debate the issue. BUT YOU MUST STICK TO THE ISSUE!
However, even if you do debate the issue, and yet, you stick stuff that is non-relevant to the issue in here (like "boohoo why did I get banned from the forums") then I'll delete the whole thing.
The rules are very clear! STICK TO THE ISSUE AND ONLY THE ISSUE! Everything else gets deleted.
One last thing. Any comments made prior to this announcement will NOT be deleted. Why? Because at the very least, it will prove to the world WHY certain posts from this point on will get deleted.
Tammy, if you have any more problems with this, just email Jeffrey. Try to clear it up with him, but I warn you: If you don't want to stick to the issue of 14 Eagles, I doubt you'll get very far with him either.
August 11th, 2010 at 04:05 pm
Gosh…my experience on other “fair & balanced” discussion forums has been that when someone disagrees with you and you wish not to debate with them any longer, you simply address your replies to a different member; not outright delete their threads because you don’t like what they say. Have you ever heard the phrase “Resistance equals Persistence” Mr. Broken Arrow? You get what you ask for buddy. You can sure dish it out, but you can’t take it. So, here we are…just as I predicted…once it hits you that you are sadly losing this debate, you go on with the threats to stifle my voice on this gifting-bashing forum.
I actually think that having a debate about the fairness of this discussion forum would be a better one to have, but I suppose I’ll entertain your argument about sustainability for just one second. So, allow me to throw some questions back at you so that maybe…just maybe…if you slow down for a second and ponder this, you might just be able to answer your own question, so here it is:
Is your J-O-B “guaranteed” for life? Can you be sure you will go to work tomorrow and your J-O-B will still be there?
Are you “guaranteed” that your local Wal-Mart will be able to sustain itself and will be in business tomorrow so that you have groceries to eat?
I can go on & on, but I think you get the gist. I don’t know how long The 14 Eagles Community will sustain itself. Here is what I do know: This Community is only 2-months young and other communities similar to this (but not near as great as I’ve found through my research) are going strong in their 8th year. There is no need name names. Just do your research for yourself and you will know. And if you don’t believe me? … Well, that would be very characteristic of you, ‘Broken Arrow’, and I not sure what else I might tell you other than “sorry for you that your missing out”. I also know that worse case, if the community didn’t sustain itself beyond another day, I’d only lose…oh, I wouldn’t lose anything. I was blessed with the feeling of giving to another, initially $6 bucks, and I have received much more than that in return. So, in response to your question about sustainability: Whether it sustained for tens of more years to come, or only lasted until tomorrow, I will have been blessed for it either way.
August 11th, 2010 at 04:18 pm
BA has been more than patient with you. If I had been him, I would have banned you far sooner for not staying on topic and insulting others. It doesn't hurt my credibility at all and since this is not my blog, BA has the right to moderate it as he feels proper.
As I have said on numerous occasions, you are more than welcome back in the forums if you can stick to the rules, something that you have been unwilling to do.
Enjoy your blessings at the expense of others (that is why BA is always asking about the sustainability - without it, it is the ones that come in later that lose. You again refuse to asnwer it - the major difference with all the other types you listed is that there is no reason to believe that they won't be sustainable, whereas there is with 14 Eagles). I am here to protect the others and always have been.
August 11th, 2010 at 05:21 pm
Second, I don't hurt Jeffrey's credibility by doing this. I don't know why you think that. Yet another strange, strange connection you make that only seems to make sense in your mind.
Third, whatever I've said that is "off-topic" is merely to address what you have written in the first place. You say I'm "Mr. Broke" or "Broken Person". I, in response, tell you that's why you got banned on the forums.
Fourth, Resistance equals Persistence is USELESS as an adage without proper context. A context you are not using properly at all. It's no good to resist and persist on something if you're completely wrong in the first place. All you do is make it worse. Before you act, first you must think.
Fifth, Tammy, you STILL did nothing to address the sustainability of 14 Eagles itself. At least in the corporate world (where you get J-O-B-S), you can find sustainable business models. But not 14 Eagles. And if you disagree, let's hear why you think that. Once again:
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?
Seriously, try answering that for real this time.
Yeah, you can go on-and-on, but about what? Not much you say actually makes any sense!
Finally, saying "only time will tell" still does not answer my question. I've already given at least one example why you can still answer my question, even if the future is still unwritten.
And with that, that's Strike 1.
August 12th, 2010 at 07:45 pm
In response to: "without it, it is the ones that come in later that lose."
...
lose what?
$6?
August 12th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
All the time and energy that they invested which could have gone to building an income that was sustainable. I assume that you value your time and energy and don't give it away for free, right? And many have stated that you must spend time and energy trying to build their downline. Simply the amount of time you have spent on this blog indicates that the time that must be invested is great. And, of course, there is also any money used, but the loss is far greater than any amount out of pocket.
August 13th, 2010 at 10:31 am
I actually kind of like you, but I must say that you are terribly wrong about your judgment on this community. Doesn’t make you a bad person or anything because with all the scams out there, it’s no wonder someone would automatically bash this. I’ve got to tell you, I thought the same thing until I tried it. I've got to respectfully disagree with you about the loss of time & energy put into this. The most Time & Energy I've spent on this has been here on these 2 forums on your savingadvice website. Other than that, I've never done ANYTHING else that requires LESS time & energy than participating in The 14 Eagles Community, for the reward I've received from it. And so has everyone on here that has tried it. Does that not mean anything to you?
I have felt inspired to spend some of my time on here because I noticed that these forums of yours are highly biased against this great community and the other side of it is not being voiced enough. Now, I can understand why people aren't able to hear both sides on here because myself (and one other member that I know about who also came forward) have reported you deleting our contributions here because you have different views, all in the name of "personal attacks" and "name calling". Well... I suppose you have the right to do that being that it is your website, but when you start deleting threads because you 'disagree' with someone (& let's be honest, that's the real reason you want me gone), your discussion forum's legitimacy goes right out the door. I am in the process of building my own website and you are welcome to say whatever you want (other than profanity of course) and I won't erase your contributions. In fact, I welcome the debate. That's how confident I am about this Great 14 Eagles Community! I can debate you guys HEAD ON, something yourself and your friends on here can't do, because I know this works. You guys don't know that it does not work simply because you haven't tried it. So again, how can you honestly proclaim yourself as a “teacher’ about something you really don’t know anything about? And I don’t say this to be mean, but you really don’t understand what you are attempting to debate here.
So, Jeffrey, I finally did take the time to do some research about you, as you recommended I do. And I researched your co-host of this savingadvice.com website as well: Nate Sanden …learned some pretty interesting things. I found this on yours & Nate’s other sponsored website, called justonespin.com:
“…Nate finally did the honors and place the bet on 31. This brought surprised looks from the other players at the table (a $45 bet, while not a huge amount, still is an unusually high bet to see placed on a single roulette number) and a couple of them immediately placed their own chips with our bet….
Welcome to our site. Okay, here's the deal (pun somewhat intended). Everyone has the dream of winning big in Las Vegas; of whipping out a few thousand dollars to place on just one spin of the roulette wheel. We're planning our second trip to Las Vegas in August 2007 and if you go to Las Vegas, you need to make at least one big bet. We decided that we'd each chip in $5 for a $10 bet, but as we continued to talk, we thought wouldn't it be cool to make a really big bet - $1,000 or even $10,000….
Make A Contribution: Any amount you donate will be greatly appreciated, but the more you give, the more exciting our one spin will be for everyone. Think about it. A single bet of $10 isn't nearly as exciting as a single bet of $10,000. The higher the pot gets, the more exciting our spin will be. If you don't want to donate, no problem. Just hang out and enjoy the chat 'cause in the end we're going to Vegas and we're going to have a great time along the way!!!”
…and TO MY DISMAY, there are all kinds of advertisements and links to “Online Casinos” & info about “The Las Vegas Life”. Gosh, most people who get legitimate financial advice would be told that making bets in Vegas probably will hurt your pocketbook. And even worse, you’re asking for “gifts” from people to support your gambling habit. How ironic is that? I try to spend my gifts in a much more responsible way and I’m not a self-proclaimed “financial advisor”…and the “gifts” that I receive by others through The Great 14 Eagles Community are actually legitimate heart-warming “gifts”, not to support my trips to Vegas and a gambling problem.
Mr. Broken A., Is this my 2nd strike? Should I accelerate my efforts to announce my new website, where everyone on here will be able to see the UN-CUT VERSION of these Non-Saving Advice forums?
Gosh, you guys are truly a hoot! How young are you guys? By the look of your pictures on your other website, you look like you’re about 15.
August 13th, 2010 at 11:19 am
And yet, I have asked you REPEATEDLY to not only to stick to the issue, but just answer one simple little question:
"How is 14 Eagles sustainable?
Why can't you do that?
And yet, without actually answering my question above, you still INSIST on pushing this issue about your supposed discrimination. You STILL refuse to stick to the debate itself. And you still INSIST on calling me names ("Broken Arrow", "BA" and even "Mr. Arrow" is fine, but "Mr. Broken" even with a "A" afterwards is not).
What's truly a hoot is the level of denial and misguided delusion that you have. Most people can at least stick to the issue, but you can't. It's just gotta be about you and only what you want to see.
And with that, yes, that's Strike 2.
Finally, no, none of us are 15. Once again, you are grossly presumptuous and ultimately wrong.
August 28th, 2010 at 05:14 pm
I have been reading your views for a while now. I think I will join the 14eagles and give it a try. The economy is bad, takes 35 weeks to find work on average now. Six to 30 people, applicants for every new job.
Also, it appears economy despite trillion dollar, plus spending spree, buy congress, is falling back into bad times before creating any new jobs.
In addition, I feel all veiws here are accurate in some ways. Every economic venture requires more people or it stalls and fails. Thus every country requires newbirths for continued growth. The U.S.A. social security system is good example. Pensions is another.
I read that today almost 5,000,000 five-million people are on emergency federal unemployment? When that stops what will they do. They say 6 or 7 million maybe soon.
Even worse, Iran is getting nukes, the EMP from the sun may according to NASA wipe out the worlds power grid in anywhere from 100-days to 100 years?
So I feel based upon all of that, well I will try a six dollar gifting program!
I will let everyone here know how it goes. I see that if you join, you sign an agreement accepting you may get nothing in return, just the ability to help others, with the chance others might help you, thats it! So I will let everyone know.
I wish everyone here success in both your personal & fiancial goals. And may congress soon choose America as its number one priority, lower all taxes, provide tax incentives for business to hire new people, like double tax deductions for every new employee, so hiring any new person is free, provide no tax for 5-years or more for every business moved from overseas back to America and include low interest rate loans to help them move back. Allow the social security funds and allow the private medical system to work as those that can afford it, want it to. It is not possible to give the rich, middle class and poor the same things, without everyone going without, as the system is showing us all now. But, we should maintain a system that works, is sustainable, and allows every American the ability,means to reach any level ,and which is now risking the entire system for everyone, even those who have done nothing wrong, who have worked hard and saved,now suffer for having faith in the system, but the system did not fail us, our leaders, goals, dreams, hunger for more, simply reached beyond our means [things only God can fix, accomplish] providing the same food, shelter, health, education, retirement for everyone, regardless of income,means. We all need to agree having the best in the world was already quit good and providing equal opportunity for improvement for all was having everything, in a world where everyone die, age, children starve daily. So come on lets face the facts and work together and correct our mistakes, forgive others so we can work together and admit, we are all imperfect, need help from time to time.
Its time America showed the world again how it can be done. The best of everything, best goverment, best leaders, who work for the people, best food, best quality affordable housing, best medical system for the poor, middle class and rich, with no one left out, but not everyone getting the same, since it is unstainable, best opportunities for growth perosnal and financial, abundant fuel form USA, all of it being affordable for every citizen based upon the levelof success.
WOW, sorry everyone got carried away. Just wish we could act and create the country our vast wealth, knowledge, history proves we can...
OH ya, 14-eagles I will give it a try and let everyone know how it works for me. Plus, if it works, well, I will create a new business buildng very low priced, affordable housing, helping Americans live better. And start a charity to provide further help. At minimum I will get my $6.oo back and get a big mac meal, hehe!
Well all the best to everyone. Sorry for getting carried away!
DCS
September 3rd, 2010 at 05:25 am
Whoever thinks they can make money at 14 Eagles and think it will go on and on and on are total losers unless you are the one that started it.
This program is like all the other programs - they fizzle in time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 3rd, 2010 at 05:08 pm
I joined 14eagles. You are correct some people do not reply or provide an address. I have just started and am going to see how things go. I found out you need to contact support. They will remove or replace people who fail to confirm those that gift or do not allow you to gift. Yes, has been slow. I also found out, they are improving the system in mid September and all people who fail to gift, or respond to those who want to gift will be removed, so not to prevent those that want to gift, to have better opportunity to improve! Plus gifts will be done via paypal or alertpay, so gifting can take place with ease and speed. Well will let you know how it goes by end of this month!
September 8th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
September 9th, 2010 at 04:00 pm
First of all, to all of you that have called this a PONZI scheme...you are just plain ignorant of what a PONZI scheme is. LOOK IT UP! Briefly, a PONZI scheme is when ALL of the money goes to ONE person who then distributes and allocates the cash back out to it's members as he/she sees fit. 14 Eagles is NOT a company, a business, a MLM plan or anything resembling a PONZI 'scheme' since each cash gift is given directly to a different member and never to any one person. Therefore, those of you that have said this is a PONZI scheme you need to try to find something else to call it, PONZI scheme does not fit! Have any of you ever put cash in a birthday card and send it to a relative? Did you break any laws when you did that? NO! You sent a gift! That's EXACTLY what 14 Eagles does but stop the presses...14 Eagles doesn't even send cash through the mail anymore anyway, that's ancient history at this point. So, all you cry babies out there that are upset because your friends are very happy 'thinking outside the box' and enjoying the benefits...well, maybe you should try being a little more positive. We all know that there are some folks that try to find fault with anything. Now let's clear up one more little issue...you start by GIFTING 3 people and you bring TWO along with you. Each person that joins 14 Eagles GETS TO BRING two people with them, not 22 people or 102 people, just TWO. And notice I said "GETS" to bring two, since this is an invitation only party. And your 'nest' (as they call it) is only you and 14 others and then that 'nest' is full. It's not 200 people or 2000 people or 2 million people in your nest, it's 14...period! OK, all you people that are skeptical, negative minded, and always looking for something to complain about, keep on mouthing. The rest of us will be very happy giving and receiving. We believe in the principal of 'pay it forward'. It makes this world a little nicer place.
September 9th, 2010 at 05:15 pm
As for finding fault, I've never set out to rain on this parade. I am simply stating what I believe, based on what I have observed. Clearly we do not agree, but we don't have to either. If you truly believe in this program, just go right ahead and keep contributing into it. It's as simple as that.
Finally, all these "people" you stated having interest? Two things. Chances are very good that only people who are interested and are aware of this program in the first place would eventually find this blog entry. Second, many of the respondents here turned out to be the same person posing as all of them. Yes, there are people here trying to fool others into believing there are many more people involved than there truly are.
September 9th, 2010 at 09:51 pm
Tell people the truth! This is not sustainable!!!
September 9th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
ULTIMATELY, DOES SOMEONE WIND UP GETTING SHAFTED WHEN THE FODDER RUN OUT!?
September 9th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
There were 5 total, but the first 4, written by "Broker Arrow" were all duplicates. So, I pruned 3 of those duplicates.
Secondly, the name "Broker Arrow" is very close to mine, which means the author may be trying to confuse other readers by using a similar name. I don't know. Regardless, we are two completely separate individuals, and readers need to know that.
Also, I find it interesting that both "Broker Arrow" and "Sensibility" are in fact the same person masquerading as two separate people.
There are some very strange people doing strange things out there, and for what? It's not like 14 Eagles a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Participate in it if you like, avoid it if you don't. It's as simple as that.
In all fairness, Broker Arrow's comment technically slanders the organization (by calling it 14DirtyBirds among other things), and as such, counts as Strike 3. Therefore, from this point on, anything that is not STRICTLY handled in an informative and professional manner, while sticking to the subject matter, will be deleted. No more warnings. No arguments. Poof. Just gone.
September 13th, 2010 at 08:55 am
Thomas Tusser.. "A fool and his money are soon parted."
PT Barnum.. "There's a sucker born every minute."
PT also said.."Many persons are always kept poor, because they are too visionary. Every project looks to them like certain successes, and therefore they keep changing from one business to another, always in hot water, always 'under the harrow'."
September 24th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
The system itself appears as if it should work, but as the author of the main post stated, "In order for the system to work, you have to get a lot of new people to join and donate their money, and the magnitude is frightening." Its true.
I made my SIX DOLLAR contribution, only to find out that you then have to purchase a TEN DOLLAR customer service package to move to the next level. Tally: $16. That in itself is a sign that something is a scam. There was ZERO mention of any of this when I spoke with the person who wanted me to join. So, I never purchased the customer service. Why? Quite frankly, I knew how to work the online site upfront and I didnt feel that I needed it. Why was it MANDATORY? Sounds off, doesnt it?
Let's fast forward to NOW, September. I have received a grand total of THREE "gifts". Count them, THREE. That means that Im still in the red for the stamps and envelopes. Which means that this is nothing more than a tool to get over on people in both church and small communities who dream of getting something for nothing or next to nothing. And lets not get into the individuals who have been duped into "The Fast Track". This is basically a system in which you PERSONALLY, OUT OF YOUR OWN MONEY push yourself to the 3rd or 4th levels of 14Eagles. I believe it ends up being close to 300-350 that you spend out yourself, plus the customer service fee. This is a disjointed system that DOES NOT meet you on the return end.
The seminars/webinars/phone conferences all seem just a bit shady. The not referring to it as a company, not calling it a business opportunity, etc. Anytime that verbiage has to be changed to deflect what something really is, normally there's something that is running just enough afoul of the law that several people could get in trouble.
Stay away from 14Eagles! No money is to be made from it. By their calculations on my initiation call, I should be at the fifth or sixth level and receiving a generous sum of money by now. However, because I opted to not put another dime into the equation, my payments did NOT come. $6 does NOT equal $5120, it barely equals the $6 that you will initially invest. Sorry to say, but It Is A Lie.
September 26th, 2010 at 08:59 am
The only reason for the $10 customer service package is for that guy in the back office - stay away!!!!
If it sounds too good, it is NOT good!
September 27th, 2010 at 07:51 pm
October 5th, 2010 at 08:30 pm
Just as in any profession, career, or job; policies and procedures, rules, corporate bylaws, must be followed to maintain the integrity of your business. The same holds true with 14 Eagles and their concepts.
I have been with them since early June. My "payer" account now receives about 4k/mo in "gifts" Not bad for an initial $6 gift and checking my computer a couple of time a week!!
October 6th, 2010 at 09:23 pm
In fact, the ones that I've left alone are also highly questionable, since they have already been covered in this rather lengthy exchange.
The only thing I am asking here is for people to focus on the issue, and if at all possible, to provide new, substantive information to the discussion.
I have not seen that yet. Still, I am trying my best not to delete any more comments than is necessary. I want both sides to have their say.
But it's not easy when people just want to snipe each other with derogatory comments that are directed towards the people rather than focus on the issue itself.
Please, let's try to be civil and focus on the issue. Otherwise, I will have to keep deleting comments.
Finally, I still can't fathom why this is such a big deal to people. Do it if you want, don't if you don't. It's not all that important in the grander scheme of things.
October 13th, 2010 at 09:25 pm
October 14th, 2010 at 05:47 am
The church group that I was told about left because one of the members is a practicing attorney, and found some legal concerns regarding the program, not because they were participating in it incorrectly. Perhaps there are two separate church groups here that left for different reasons, but it's important to note that there is no definitive ties that we are indeed talking about the same group.
As for the tired criticism of, "How do you know it's bad if you've never tried it", the short and blunt answer is, "Because if stop and think critically about it, it's pretty obvious that it is." And I apologize if there's any negative implied connotations towards you or anybody else, but it's like this: I don't rob people. I don't do cocaine. I don't stick my hand in a fire. Most importantly, I don't have to do any and all of these things JUST to find out if it's a bad idea or not. It's very obvious to me that it is. Pyramid schemes are no different.
The other common criticism that I've also already addressed, and yet people still bring up is, "It's only 6 dollars. What's the big deal?" The issue here isn't the amount. Even if it's only 2 dollars, or $0.50, the bottom line is, I don't think the program is a good idea. When you think about it, the lottery is about that cheap as well, but I don't play that either because I think that is a bad idea.
"You got to be kidding me to think someone in the top of the program is out to take all this money from you."
This quote doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't they? Pyramid schemes is about profiting from others. It's about taking more in than you are giving out. People lucky enough to profit it from it will most likely keep it, saying they need it for their own "charity" needs.
"The program is basically is out there to help others"
To be accurate, the program is basically out there to help themselves. You have to be a paying member of the 14 Eagles organization before you will even get the chance of getting anything back. A real charity organization does not do this. A real charity organization will literally help you if you qualify, even if you are not a member of that organization. Do I have to literally join and tap people's veins and draw plasma before Red Cross will help me? No. Do I have to join and build houses in New Orleans before Habitat for Humanity will help me? No. Do I have to join and have breast cancer before the American Cancer Society will help me? No. But I do have to join 14 Eagles and give them my money before they will "help" me.
October 18th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
It is apparent your negativity, regardless of how you disguise it, is rearing it's very ugly head again! Your rhetoric leaves many to believe that unless a charity is "free" you don't "give". Do you "give" at Church? (if you even attend!)or any charitable organization? How in hell is that church built? or the American Cancer Society headquarters. For free? No idiot; it is built with your donation. It takes funding to keep a church going. It takes money to get the ACS to the public and alert them to the wondrous deeds they perform. As with any organization it is not accomplished without funding!!
The same applies to 14 Eagles. Who do you think pays for their website? Who do you think pays for their facilitators? Do you put in your 40hrs/wk and expect no pay?
Naysayers and skeptics such as you need to keep your heads in the sand and get out of Dodge. America and the American dream do not need you.
October 18th, 2010 at 01:07 pm
How an organization or program is funded isn't the issue here. At all. If an organization, even a pyramid scheme, requires money to cover the overhead expenses, there's nothing wrong with that provided that there is proper transparency.
In fact, I have never even brought up this issue before, and yet, I am being accused of it. Funny.
I think what's really sad here is that some are calling pyramid schemes such as this an "American Dream". To me, it's something bad, like selling crack on the streets or sticking my hand in the fire. And yet, I am accused of being a negative person for pointing out something that is obviously a bad thing to me. Interesting.
October 18th, 2010 at 04:03 pm
Sorry for violating the rules re: name calling. I promise I will abide in the future assuming it will apply to all.
That said, it is time for you to step up to the plate and answer questions without your evasive rhetoric.
How am I NOT addressing the issue? And in whose eyes?
Why is the mention of charitable organizations appropriate for you and not others? And is it not an issue especially when you eluded to charitable organizations 2 posts past? Why do you evade answering certain questions when you are the biggest offender?
You kept asking tammy "How is 14 Eagles sustainable? Do you even understand the meaning of sustainable. The answer to your query is simple: it is still in existence! And for your edification sustainability is the ability to maintain, support, or endure with a goal for the future. Do not deny this, for if you do your true colors will surface!
Do you think Gates, Kroc and other wealthy business persons even considered sustainability? Maybe. Maybe not. However, the premise on which their empires were built was "endure with a goal for the future".
My question to you is: "How is 14 Eagles NOT sustainable? Do you and other naysayers have intimate knowlege of 14 Eagles. Answer this: Have you joined 14 Eagles to attain this knowledge or is this as you say, "my opinion"? Opinions are like smelly butts--everybody has had one.
I would venture this will be answered with the same rhetorical BS you are very adept at dishing out and most of your replies reveal this trait.
14 Eagles may appear as a pyramid, or at least a variance on a theme--but until it is officially given that connotation, quit bashing it!
You state "stick to the issue" which I have done. Now you stick to a human trait called respect; the respect of answering a question when asked! I believe that is what question marks are for!
October 18th, 2010 at 04:45 pm
Where? Please point that out exactly where I evaded answering questions. Why would I even do that? Seriously, point them out. Otherwise, you are wrong.
"Why is the mention of charitable organizations appropriate for you and not others?"
14 Eagles is not a true charity organization. A real charity does not require those who benefit from it to be a member first, nor does it require money first, with the promise of making more money from it later.
"Do you even understand the meaning of sustainable. The answer to your query is simple: it is still in existence!"
Yes, I know what the word means. No, the mere existence does not mean it's sustainable. Pyramid schemes, and really any type of con games and criminal activities, are as old as human history itself. But just because it running right now doesn't mean it will last.
"My question to you is: "How is 14 Eagles NOT sustainable? Do you and other naysayers have intimate knowlege of 14 Eagles."
14 Eagle's own website illustrates a pyramid scheme of zero sum game. That is, for one to profit, another has to lose. This isn't a business where it turns raw materials into finished goods or even provide a service, despite attempting to draw parallels with real businesses by bringing up Gates and Kroc.
As such, all pyramid schemes will eventually hit critical mass. That is, there is only so many people it can recruit and "gift" money to existing members (people higher up in the pyramid). Eventually, those stuck at the bottom will be the ones stuck with the loss.
I've already answered this, by the way. More than once. And yet, you accuse me of evading questions. Something tells me you didn't read my previous comments.
"I would venture this will be answered with the same rhetorical BS you are very adept at dishing out and most of your replies reveal this trait."
To me, this is an unnecessary accusation based on some very incorrect assumptions about me. In fact, where am I being rhetorical? Seriously, point exactly where, or else you are wrong.
"You state "stick to the issue" which I have done. Now you stick to a human trait called respect; the respect of answering a question when asked!"
I have never once backed down from answering any reasonable questions. In fact, this is the first time you've specifically asked me these questions, and before I even have a chance to answer them, you accuse me of being evasive.
The rules are also in place to focus on the issues, and away from slandering and name-calling, and yet you are the one who called me an idiot and being disrespectful.
Think about that for a moment.
October 18th, 2010 at 05:20 pm
Why are you now answering previously asked questions (?)Take a look at my previous post and tell me you answered specific questions. You must take me for one of your cronies!
You are still evading the question about intimate knowledge. Are you afraid to answer a direct question? Have you joined? ANSWER ME!! Do you have intimate knowledge of 14 Eagles? ANSWER ME!!
Needless to say, your avoidance leads you audience to see you for what you are and I do not have to spell that out. I AM NOT WRONG AND JUST SHOWED YOU EXAMPLES!!
I never once called 14 Eagles a charitable organization. Point to where I said that or apologize to the masses.
You need to start a blog on being humble and on how not to be self righteous especially in light of the fact you have absolutely no clue of what you speak. I repeat the questions, Have you joined? Do you have intimate knowledge of 14 Eagles?
If not--GET OUT OF TOWN!!
October 18th, 2010 at 08:27 pm
October 18th, 2010 at 08:58 pm
I'm going to leave your comment on because although you're resorting to name calling (Bent Arrow), you do pose a legitimate point or two.
For one thing, I agree this subject is old and flat. In fact, it's trivial to me. I don't know why you guys are so worked up about it. I'm not.
As for deleted posts, they were deleted because they resorted to name-calling, and yet, does not add any substance at all to the conversation.
Just the like the one you just made. That's the only reason why they are deleted. The policy still stands, and I will be here to enforce it for however long it takes.
October 18th, 2010 at 09:05 pm
Haha, getting a little excited over this, aren't we? If by "intimate knowledge", you mean have I joined 14 Eagles, the answer is no. I've already mentioned that several times earlier as well.
However, I've also countered that you don't have to join something to understand it as a bad thing. Again, I don't have to stick my hand in a fire to know that's bad for me.
"Needless to say, your avoidance leads you audience to see you for what you are and I do not have to spell that out. I AM NOT WRONG AND JUST SHOWED YOU EXAMPLES!!"
No, I have not avoided anything at all. It's all written here before, and for whatever reason, you didn't read it. And yet, you are so quick to accuse me of being evasive?
"I never once called 14 Eagles a charitable organization. Point to where I said that or apologize to the masses."
I did not say you said it was a charitable organization. However, 14 Eagles bills itself as one. It even says so on their website. What you are saying, however, is that it's like a business. And 14 Eagles does not say that it is a business.
Even by 14 Eagles' own standards, you are incorrect about this. Completely.
"You need to start a blog on being humble and on how not to be self righteous especially in light of the fact you have absolutely no clue of what you speak. I repeat the questions, Have you joined? Do you have intimate knowledge of 14 Eagles?"
As I've said before, and I guess I'll have to say it again and again. No, I am not a part of 14 Eagles. I will not be a part of it, and as difficult as it may be for you to believe, but you don't have to be a part of this organization to disagree with it.
"If not--GET OUT OF TOWN!!"
I think you are confused. This is my blog. This is not your town. And I am merely speaking my mind. If you have a problem with it, you can leave.
October 18th, 2010 at 09:08 pm
I have no problem stating that 14 eagles is a pyramid scheme and scam. Simply looking at the set up where it can only grow by the recruitment of others proves this. That is exactly what pyramid schemes do and there is no need of intimate knowledge or to join to see this since it is right there in the description on how it works and where the money comes from.
Keep up the good fight BA
October 18th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Honestly guys, if you disagree, that's fine. Just join 14 Eagles and continue to do what you're doing. I don't see what the fuss is all about. If anything, all the negative comments and slander is just making the very thing you are advocating look really bad.
October 19th, 2010 at 06:52 am
"If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of the currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson
October 19th, 2010 at 07:31 am
If it had happened only once, I would have believed that. But not if it happens several times over, as it has throughout this conversation. Either way, it doesn't matter. If it continues to be a problem, it will simply get deleted.
"Coruption has spread like butter on bread,these programs are not all good-Financial savey people are having problems-A man once wrote and made this Quote
"If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of the currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson"
What you have written there is true rhetoric, because you are writing about a principle you believe in, and not necessarily what is factually happening here.
To make it relevant, has it ever occurred to you (or anyone else in here), that 14 Eagles could be corrupt? That pyramid schemes such as this is the very tyranny you are speaking out against? It may not be a bank or corporation, but it nevertheless deprives many of the same People it claims to help.
Either way, and contrary to prsherry's false accusations, I am not really interested in the rhetorical, because I find such rhetorics to be self-evident, and if anything, I'm actually trying to warn The People against corrupt systems such as this, where corruption is inherent within the design itself.
Oh, and one last thing. Thanks to you guys and all this activity, my blog entry has made it to the top of the Google search list! Had you guys just left it alone, it would have faded into internet obscurity like the rest of the entries that I write. But you guys made it such a big deal that it's beating out even 14 Eagles itself. Congrats all around.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:35 am
"...Please know that the 14 Eagles is not an investment club, not a business, not MLM, not a company or corporation, not a commercial enterprise of any kind whatsoever, nor do its activities include the solicitation of anything. There are no investments here, no paychecks, no products or services to sell, no seminars to attend, no tapes or manuals to buy, and no one makes or earns any money. There are no profit making benefits of any kind associated with this activity. No benefit or return of any nature is expressed or implied and no promises or guarantees of any such return are permitted to be made by any participant of this activity.
... Participants are prohibited from representing the activity of the 14 Eagles as anything other than as stated above."
Bolded portion was done by me. By stating that you have received any money, you are in direct conflict with the terms you signed.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:53 am
BA's own admission of not belonging to 14 Eagles bears testimony to that fact.
Jeffery, whoever he is, and BA for that matter, paint themselves as financial wizards when, in fact, their advice is based on said (without knowledge)opinions.
Both of them appear to be antagonists who, ironically, seem to be somewhat educated, but are probably a couple of teenage punks whose only claim to fame is having the ability to start a blog.
So, with this minimal audience, what purpose does it serve?
The producers are only showing their true colors by flinging insults, false accusations, inaccurate assessments,and demeaning comments about an issue they know nothing about! And, by their own admission have never joined 14 Eagles!
Would you take/or seek hunting advice from a person who never touched a gun? Would you take/or seek legal advice from an uneducated laborer?
Why then would you take or seek advice from a couple of jerks who are only offering opinions based on what?
BA/Jeffery. Can you provide valid credentials that substantiate what you claim is accurate? Can you provide written evidence that you are experts at dissecting the pitfalls of what you speak? Or will this result in yet another evasive, BS reply?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:53 am
October 19th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Can you provide valid credentials that substantiate what you claim is accurate? Can you provide written evidence that you are experts at dissecting the pitfalls of what you speak?
Hmmm, OK, I will give it a shot. I own savingadvice.com which is a website that teaches people about personal finance and how to get out of debt. I have been a personal finance writer for over 10 years and have been published on many of the biggest personal finance sources such as Yahoo finance and AOL finance. I wrote a personal finance column for The Street for several years. I wrote the Sound Money Tips blog/column for Seeking Alpha for awhile. Part of all these jobs is looking out for scams and exposing them. Is that enough?
October 19th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Would you take business advice from a drug dealer or a con artist?
"Why then would you take or seek advice from a couple of jerks who are only offering opinions based on what?"
Even if it's just that, why get so worked up over it? As you say, it's only the opinion of a couple of jerks. So what of it?
"Why then would you take or seek advice from a couple of jerks who are only offering opinions based on what?"
I think you've completely misread the context of this. You see, it's just a blog post. It's not a proclamation that everybody should or should not join 14 Eagles. Merely, I stated that I don't agree with it, and it is up to others to decide what they want to do with their own money. It's all written very clearly, and several times over, from earlier.
"Can you provide valid credentials that substantiate what you claim is accurate?"
What, that 14 Eagles is a pyramid scheme? Well, take a look at one of 14 Eagles' own page links. It's even diagrammed as a pyramid.
"Can you provide written evidence that you are experts at dissecting the pitfalls of what you speak?"
You may not accept me as an "expert" even though I never claimed to be one to begin with.
So, how about the Federal Trade Commission?
Or may be the Federal Bureau of Investigations?
Are they expert enough for you?
"Or will this result in yet another evasive, BS reply?"
Once again, please show me where I am evading. I am answering your questions as directly as possible. Otherwise, it's just a baseless accusation.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
October 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
The problem I have is that prsherry is also claiming that you have to be a member of 14 Eagles before you are qualified to have an opinion about 14 Eagles.
That's like saying you have to be a cocaine addict before you are qualified to say that cocaine is bad thing.
That's like saying you have to have murdered someone before you are qualified to say that murder is a bad thing.
That's like saying you have to have burnt your hand to a crisp before you are qualified to say that fire on your skin is a bad thing.
And most relevant of all, that's like saying that you have to have conned people out of lots of money before you are qualified to say that pyramid schemes like 14 Eagles is a bad thing.
No, you don't need to do stuff like this to know it's a bad thing.
October 19th, 2010 at 02:42 pm
What you have proves nothing! Any half-wit can produce and own a website. Furthermore you are as evasive as BA.
"I have been a personal finance writer for over 10 years and have been published on many of the biggest personal finance sources such as Yahoo finance and AOL finance. I wrote a personal finance column for The Street for several years. I wrote the Sound Money Tips blog/column for Seeking Alpha for awhile. Part of all these jobs is looking out for scams and exposing them".
This is not a valid credential nor written evidence as previously requested.So what you have written means nothing other than substantiating the fact that YOU KNOW NOTHING!!
Readers take note! The true colors are glowing! These 2 are the fakes or should I say flakes!
If 14 Eagles is illegal show me where action has commenced to cease it's operation!
October 19th, 2010 at 03:22 pm
lol - spending 10 years as a personal finance writer (both freelance and employed by some of the main personal finance websites) is not evidence that I know what I am talking about? I assume that you have better and a more thorough personal finance background since you want people to believe you?
You are correct that anyone can start a personal finance website, but very few can make a living running one (which I happen to do). I spend my days helping writing articles to help people with their finances and getting out of debt. That is my full time job.
Can you show me one article you have written where you have been requested to write it and have been paid for it in regards to persona finance (to show you have even a basic understanding of how personal finance works)? I have hundreds to my name. Or can you show me anything that makes you a financial expert in any way?
14 Eagles now (this seems to be a recent change)plainly states that you can't make money from it. Read their terms. Then show me specifically how you can make money with them when they plainly say "There are no profit making benefits of any kind associated with this activity. No benefit or return of any nature is expressed or implied and no promises or guarantees of any such return are permitted to be made by any participant of this activity."
So basically you are paying money that they put in writing you are not entitled to get back. That sure sounds like a winning money making strategy to me
October 24th, 2010 at 07:23 am
Why would one want to put money in this POS when the Eagles web-site clearly states? "There are no profit making benefits of any kind associated with this activity. No benefit or return of any nature is expressed or implied and no promises or guarantees of any such return are permitted to be made by any participant of this activity." Geeeeesh
October 25th, 2010 at 06:13 am
October 25th, 2010 at 06:40 am
Otherwise, why even have such a program in the first place?
I've gifted informally to individuals before, and formally to reputable charities, and none of them expect you to 1) recruit more people so that they can 2) hope others will give you more money in return. These added elements adds profit motive, despite what the website may officially state.
The bottom line is, you don't need programs like 14 Eagles if you truly just want to gift people money and expect nothing in return. And yet, for whatever reason, some here have fought so viciously to defend it. Do you suppose it's because they are speaking on behalf of charity? Or is it the profit motive speaking?
October 25th, 2010 at 10:44 am
October 25th, 2010 at 11:10 am
This stops at 14. These 14 are like your family, because you gift each other... not once, but continuously...
Why not give and then receive? Is that a crime? Or is it in fact one of The Golden Rules?
I honestly think it can be considered charity.... The cause is just different. Its a charity of community... charity of, "Instead of Lottery Lets Give Each Other A Dollar and Our Dreams".... I guess its all how u look at it. I respect everyones views... and perspective of the same thing.
October 25th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Plus, there's a problem here with the pyramid scheme in this. Basically, if everyone has an empty soda can to give, for Pat to profit by having 2 empty soda cans to trade for a piece of candy, John would have to give up his 1 can to Pat.
However, John, who is also hoping to get 2 cans to trade for a piece of candy, but has already given away his one can, it means he has to recruit Maurice and Janet down the street into the program and convince them to give up their soda cans to John, with promise of the potential to have enough cans of their own to get their own candy.
From there, Maurice and Janet would then have to recruit enough to do the same.
The exchange of cans to candy is also very important to note, because 14 Eagle members who have already made some profit have used it for their own personal expenses (as they have mentioned earlier). Even if everyone gifts back everything they have received, at best, the program will only break even and circulate existing assets.
In short, and as I have already explained many times, in order for one to profit, several would have to lose. No matter what analogy, marketing speak, or charitable wording we would like to use, that's the bottom line. Also, because there are only so many neighbors and so many soda cans, the program is also inherently unsustainable.
Now, maybe some don't care about any of the risks. But, if don't care about the profit-motive, then you can simply recycle your cans with existing, reputable municipal recycling programs, or more accurately, give to existing, reputable charities. You don't really need 14 Eagles here.
October 27th, 2010 at 06:38 pm
Come on now folks..geeeeeeeeeeeesh
November 22nd, 2010 at 08:55 am
ok people just to let u know that guy broken arrow is in 14eagles!! he is in 14 eagles!! i repeat he is in 14eagles!!!!!!
November 22nd, 2010 at 09:07 am
February 3rd, 2011 at 12:40 pm
February 23rd, 2011 at 04:14 pm
February 24th, 2011 at 08:08 am
If I read your comments correctly you lost $6 with 3 dishonest members in the program...don't blame the rest of the community! As for the last part of your comment that I'm "useless", well that tells me along with everyone on this blog all we need to know about you. I hope life treats you better than you treat your fellow man!!
February 24th, 2011 at 06:32 pm
February 25th, 2011 at 11:35 am