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14 Eagles

June 23rd, 2010 at 06:19 am

Sooo, a fellow co-worker told me about this new ponzi scheme er I mean charity organization, but with a twist. The basic idea is this:

Donate $6, separated into three $2 portions, to your fellow gifters in the organization, and in return, you are eligible to receive back as much as $28 in cash gift yourself.

Now, you can only keep $7, because the other $21 is then split into three $7 portions that you re-donate back into the program, but in return, you are eligible for an even higher sum... that you can keep only a certain portion of while you re-donate the rest back.

Sounds innocent enough. So, what's wrong with this picture?

In order for the system to work, you have to get a lot of new people to join and donate their money, and the magnitude is frightening.

For one thing, it will take up to 14 donations on the first level (hence the name 14 Eagles) just for you to complete level 1. That's roughly 4.6 people required to make the total of 14 donations needed. Let's just say 5 people.

Let me say this again. For you, one person, to make the initial profit of only $1(!), you need 5 people below you. 5 people.

And how many does it require to complete level 2? 25 people. It takes 5 Level 2 gifters, each requiring their own 5 people's worth of level 1 donations to reach level 2 in order for them to gift YOU enough level 2 donations to go to level 3. 25 people.

And how many is required to reach level 3? 125 people. And it just keeps going like that.

The funny thing is, my co-worker believes the math makes sense, because the misleading literature is only showing you the dollar amounts you have the POTENTIAL of making, but never once mentioning the number of people required below you to realize that potential.

There's something else too. Because it's a (shady) charitable organization, it's not really subject to the same regulatory standards as a regular business, even for network marketing types.

Plus, everything is literally handled through cash. Yes, they recommend that you hide the cash, wrapped in magazine pages, stuffed inside darkened envelopes. Uh huh.

Even their website, 14eagles.com, is locked down pretty tight. You can't get in without ID and password. Nothing shows up on the domain registration either. Gotta love a good charity organization with transparency oh wait.... IT DOESN'T.

All this lack of transparency also makes it easy for the program's creator to game the system and keep a substantial portion for himself without anyone knowing.

Fortunately, my co-worker is out of this program. One of the members of his church found some questionable legal details, and his entire church decided to collectively get out of it.

But anyways, here's another cautionary tale about how if something looks too easy or too good to be true, chances are, it is.

144 Responses to “14 Eagles”

  1. North Georgia Gal Says:

    It sounds totally confusing to me! It is sad that there are that many people out there that don't see things for what they are!

  2. dmontngrey Says:

    It still baffles me to no end that people actually think this stuff will make them money! Ugh... scary.

  3. Tabs Says:

    Yeah, the system is made such that there is JUST enough quasi-math to confuse people into joining. Because, what it basically boils down to is this:

    Give us $6, and in time, if you're lucky, we'll give you $7 back so you can earn a $1 profit. Now, even though that $1 translates into roughly 16.7% return, there is NO GUARANTEE if or when that money will ever arrive.

    What's worse, unlike investing or even trading, you own NO EQUITY in anything! Therefore, you can't sell anything back at a loss, or even deduct it for a tax loss harvesting. And because you freely gave away your money in some twisted name of charity, little can be done to address your grievances or get your money back.

    Even gambling at a casino would be more entertaining than this. Actually, gambling is safer too, because at least there are gaming commissions that regulate the industry!

  4. ceejay74 Says:

    Ugh, just reading this made me sick to my stomach. Thank you for posting it though; maybe someone thinking about joining will see this and change their minds!

    Many people don't have sympathy for foolish or gullible people. I have a ton--those are NOT the worst human personality traits someone could have; although greed is somewhat involved when one gets into a pyramid scheme, there are many goodhearted people who get taken out because they don't have enough cynicism or commonsense to protect themselves in this thief-ridden world.

  5. Shuggie Says:

    I am glad for this bit of information. A friend of mine told me about this yesterday as he was sincerely trying to assist me in earning some extra cash. However I had so many questions that he could not answer. I figured this didn't make sense and it sound like a pyramid scam. It sure is confusing though and I want no parts of it. Its just money going round and round and who gets the bulk?! Thanks so much for this posting I will try to explain to my friend why its not as credible as he thinks.

  6. James Tower Says:

    I checked out what you are saying or trying to say...It appears you are way off base. The people send the money to each other cause it says no company exists. If one were to spend $6, they control getting it back via getting three (3) people to join. Three people send you $2 each, correct?? It says you do not go to the next level, unless you have received the money to do so. $2 times 14 equals $28 and the next level costs $7 times 3.

    The hard part on these programs is getting to find two people to duplicate effort. It may take 100 people to get two to duplicate but it appears it could happen with two people with an opposite outlook than most people appear to have. You may have block your co-employee from an opportunity that he/she controls.

    I could be that people do not have $6 or they don't have the effort, I really do not know!!!

  7. Tabs Says:

    First of all James, no one, including myself, claims that this is a company of any sort.

    Second of all, you're confusing the supposed revenue versus actual profit. No matter how you slice this, the program only allows you to keep 25% of your total revenue for each level. And of the money you get to keep, most are simply recouping your initial investment money. Again, you'll never see the light of most of that money, but that's what they show you anyways, and that's how they fool you into thinking you're rolling in it.

    Thirdly, unless someone explicitly asks, it has never been my policy to tell someone what they should or should not do with their life. When my co-worker introduced this program to me, he was already a member. I didn't block him from anything. And when his church pulled out of the program, and when his wife made him to do the same, I once again had nothing to do with it.

    No James. Nothing here is way off base. It's just another ponzi scheme. And the dollar amount involved is irrelevant. This is a life lesson about financial savvy.

    Finally, $6 was only the first level. Each level you climb up requires more and more money, until you get to the upper levels, where it would require anywhere from $150 to $700 to participate.

  8. Sheena Says:

    Hello everyone! I am actually in the business and I have only used 6$ of my own money and I have made in one day back $28 and yes in the beginning you only get a $1 or so but the next levels are more profitable. I am not doing to really gain money, I have several businesses, but there are some people that are struggling right now and this is making them feel as though all is not lost! Although the amount in the beginning is small I am working my way up and personally know others that are at the sixth level and are making the money so! Somethings are not for everyone and the ones that do or do not take part I wish you all well!

  9. Not a Fool Says:

    Not to mention the level 2 virtual customer service charge of $10. Also the site Admin is strongly recommending that everyone get a debit card for $6.95 but do not contact them about the card because it is not issues through them (so why are you recommending it!) There is also a $1. charge for each gifting transaction. They claim that the debit card will make gifting easier and cheaper then sending it through the mail.

  10. Lovlee Says:

    Greetings everyone. I am part of the organization as well and I have had nothing but great experiences. The problem is that the person who shared the concept didn't explain it properly. First of all, there are a lot of gifting organizations in different communities that actually help each other when it comes to money. How do you think people overseas come here and start their own businesses? 14 eagles is another gifting community where the concept is to "pay it forward". Correct, to reach the level where you are receiving larger gifts, quite a number of people must have joined your community. However, it's only as possible as you make it. Like I said, I have had a great experience and one month in and I'm still excited. Organizations like this aren't for everyone. I find it amazing how people will look down on an organization like this OR even multi level marketing businesses when all the huge fortune 500 companies actually recruit (get people to join their team) and all the big bucks trickle to the top (the CEO is always the one who makes the most money). In this gifting community and in many MLM businesses, everyone who joins is on an equal playing field and the harder you work, the sooner you reap your rewards (kinda like working commission at a store). The concept is not new folks. People are just ignorant. Doesn't bother me though. My suggestion is to get all the facts before forming an opinion based on your own assumptions.

  11. Tabs Says:

    This is fascinating. I wasn't expecting this sort of response. Thank you all for showing up and providing further thoughts on this.

    I will say this much: Throughout the years of my exposure and introductions to various MLMs and ponzi schemes, I've seen fervent supporters defending passionately for their program. But to what end?

    Ultimately, money gets funneled to the top for the few from the vast majority below. This is the basics of any MLM.

    And when there is no transparency or oversight where money can easily be re-directed by an invisible hand, you've got all the makings of a ponzi scheme.

    The only difference here is that, instead of selling or being sold over-priced products and services, you are going straight to the source and simply asked to give up your money.

    This type of set up is indeed different from a Fortune 500 company, because most companies are subject regulatory bodies such as the IRS and the SEC. Fortune 500 companies most likely also have to create public financial records for their shareholders. Certainly corruption can still exist but at least it's harder than murky organizations such as 14 Eagles.

    And yet, 14eagles does not claim to be a company, so why the comparison in the first place?

    This type of set up is also different from getting a loan from your family or a true charity organization, because at least this is direct money transfer from people you trust, and with no 3rd party organizations that lack transparency.

    I should also add that I too am from overseas and have received monetary support in the past. And I still do not like the look of this setup.

    Indeed people can be quite ignorant. Too many people fall in love with their favored investments, and that ultimately causes them to lose their objectivity. They fully buy into the candy-coated rhetoric that is being pitched, because they want to believe so badly that this can work that they are not willing to look at the facts involved. Yes, most of what I've presented here are factual.

    To simply ignore the facts I've present and make some blanket statement that I am forming an opinion here based on assumptions is, well, incorrect.

  12. James Tower Says:

    The bottom line issue is the loss of money in the back of everyone's mind in life. You spend $6 as I see it. That's it. You recruit like people or why join anything. Three people send you $2 each in this case... There your money is back in full because you controlled that why would you joined a program in the first place.

    What I read from them is, one never moves up a level unless they have the received the money in hand to do so. Explain to everyone how you are in a position to lose?? It has to be the lack of $6 and/or a willingness to place effort. I am writing this cause programs can work but narrow minded people can block people from an attempt to better themselves. The simple question that should be evident: Who else has offered to assist us for $6 lately??? Gifting programs have nothing to do with MLM. They are people sending money to people as I see it. Shenna above was correct, people can afford $6. But, they have to get out of their own way first.

  13. Tabs Says:

    James, as I've mentioned before, you only keep 25% of what you receive. Therefore, with the three $2 donations you've mentioned, while it may show a total of $6 on your computer screen, you are only eligible for $1.50 of those $6. The rest are already reserved for you to give back to the program, which is supposedly going to other participants.

    Again, while it may look like you received $6, you do not keep $6. You don't make back your $6 until you've received $24 total, and you don't make the $1 profit until you've reached the $28 total.

    Also, while the premise may be to give each other money, it is nevertheless a MLM structure, minus the products and services that are usually associated with such a program. This time, they're just calling it a straight "gift". I'm not saying all MLMs are a bad thing in and of itself, but it is what it is.

  14. James Tower Says:

    Opps, again you are wrong. You are under no obligation to continue. If four people followed into these programs and you sent $6 and got $8 back, you made money. What I am saying, it would take a fool to not pay $6 to get $8 in any given scenario. I am a retiree and am doing this one my own time. Hope you are not an employee doing this on company time...all programs start slowly, jump to this program's 6th level and then talk about that return as opposed to the paltry $6...I am not in this program but I do believe you have talked me into it.

  15. cashndays Says:

    People fear what they do not understand and take advice of fools before getting the FACTS! 14Eagles is working well and its affordable for the masses. If you do not like it, don't join. I mean folks its $6 to get started and well worth it for me. I made it to the TOP level in 3 weeks and yes it works. I kept the attitude of giving and helping others because thats what its all about.

  16. Jason Says:

    Ok so I have no opinion of this scheme either way but I have a family member that is in it and made $3500 bucks verifiable. I break it down like this, its $6. Most people spend that on there morning coffee so why not throw it into something that might turn it into $7 or $28 or whatever. Basically ya click a few buttons get a couple more people to throw in $6. Who cares if you are making someone at the top of the food chain a millionaire. Good for him for figuring out a way to make money. Ya gotta take everything in life for what it is. If ya ain't got $6 then ya better not do it but if ya got $6 to throw away at least it will keep ya busy for a while and help someone some where make a living.

  17. Aubz Says:

    All u folks who's not in it u just don't know what you are talking about the 14 eagles it's a group of people friends and loveones or anybody that are willing to give and help people out by giving their gifts and building your own team that are willing to help, give and be committed to each other...Why not find it out for your ownself!!! Just join so u will have an idea what it is all about...U don't need to care who's on the top of this they deserve it to create this program to share to people, all u need to care is your own team and just be thankful that you are part of it that gonna bless your life, all your team gonna get the same amount your getting it's just a matter of who's have the big heart to give out first even putting out of your own pocket to help others move up to where gonna be going if u help others move up others will help u too.. Not everything is just all about money!!! It's a matter of attitude how u see things the way u give, if ur mind is always just bec. Of money that's why ur reacting and smalling 14 eagles bec. All u think is how much u gonna get but not how much are u willing to give and help somebody out to get where they wanna go in life!!!!! Before u judge make sure you are part of it!!!

  18. Eagle Lover Says:

    Don't knock it till you have tried it..

  19. Randy Says:

    Hello everyone -This 14 Eagles is for real and growing quickly I've received several hundreds of dollars in my first month with a $6.00 gift which is two dollars to three people everything works exactly the way they say it does and it keeps on getting better everyday .

  20. Charles Says:

    Broken arrow is broken info, what you got was wrong info, what you heard, you distorted, what you concluded is wrong, and your math is no way near the truth.

  21. Tabs Says:

    Wow, you guys are absolutely incredible. I thought this matter was put to rest, but I guess not.

    Even if I don't have the exact details nailed down, the premise remains the same. In order for one person to at least break even, it takes three people below you to give you money. And those three people need nine people below them to break even. And those nine need twenty seven people below them to break even. And so on and so forth.

    Regardless of what magnitude you want to use, there is nothing wrong with that very simple math. In the end, a lot of people will have to lose money in order for some existing people to gain money. It's a simple, zero sum game where money is transferred upwards.

    And I guess that's why it's necessary to silence critics like me eh? Even though the concept is dirt simple, some of you guys cling on to the minor details surrounding the program and decide that's enough to discredit me and invalidate the whole argument?

    And while I'm here, James, you're trying too hard to try to get a rise out of me. The attempts are laughable, and that's really all I can say about it.

    Triple MMM, who signed the mortgage? Did they force you to sign it or did you sign it willingly, regardless of the terms? Did you analyze the terms? Did you make sure that it was a mortgage that you can afford?

    For what it's worth though, some of the details regarding the lending industry also bothers me, and I've blogged about it quite a bit as well (particularly the subprime derivatives and the lack of transparency).

    However, I must disagree with the argument that this is about fear over something that I do not understand. Quite the contrary, the premise is very simple and ultimately flawed, and using this blanket criticism out of context not only falls flat, but it really says something about those who are making such criticisms.

    Yes, I recognize that some have made money, and I am happy for you, especially for those who are being nice about this. However, I also think it's important to point out that all MLM and ponzi schemes have made money for somebody, and still that doesn't make the program any less riskier or flawed. Even organized crime makes money. Please remember that just because some people have made money does not prove that something is a good idea to begin with.

    And yes, there are those who also complain that I am not giving the program the fair chance. That's a fair argument at least. However, I can't begin to tell you how many times in the past people have said that to me about their program, only for me to relent, join their seminars, take a chance with a bit of money, only to find the program fail eventually. I've already heard the 14 Eagles pitch and read the promotional material. The only step left is to put up the money, which I do not want to do.

    Finally, to those who are being nice or at least objective about this, even if you disagree with me, I thank you for the nice gesture.

  22. GET-HONES- FACTS Says:

    -You (disservice yourself) when you spin facts
    -You (continue to misrepresent-yourself) as you continue to misrepresent information . . .

    -This is private program . . .
    -It's not for (everyone)

    -This is not a business . . .
    -This is not a company
    -This is not a investment . . .
    -There are no percentages regardless of your spin. . .

    -7-10 homes in this country are 60 days from living in the street. . . . ( in one of the richest counties in the world ) . . .

    -I have seen the poor bail out millionaires and multi-millionaires . . .

    -Jobs were lobbied/sold out of this country 30-40yrs ago . . . .

    -Gas is at $3.00+ and going up . . .

    -I have seen 911, Katrina, & oil spills, Hattie earthquakes, massive forcloseures. . .

    -I have seen young men & women soldiers gladly give there life, etc . . .

    -Habitat for Humanity: people helping people for a new home . . .

    -Quakers Barn Raisings . . .
    -Giving food to Charities food pantries . . .
    -Feeding families on Thanksgiving, . . .
    -Feeding the Worlds Poor

    -$2 donation (freely), to 3 possible strangers,
    - donations forwarded in all steps are from donations received . . . ( not out of your pocket ). . .

    - not advocated to give out of your pocket, but you can . . .

    - Pass step 1, it’s not advocated to give out of your pocket . . . ( know need to )

    - Help 2, and donate out of the donations received

    -I’ve given birthday gifts, mother’s day gifts, valentines day gifts, fathers day gifts, graduation gifts, tithes, offerings, police charities, feed the hungry, given to those with a hand out on the streets, Christmas gifts and have given cash gifts for each celebratory occasion for 35+ yrs. and will continue to give an I am not a company or non profit.

    Now I can't donate $2 to 3 possible starngers WOW!

    Dig the well before the water is needed . . .


    ( WOW!! )Instead of complaining . . .

    Someone/s presents a ("tiny solution")

    and the dobbermans just rip it apart without providing another solution . . . WOW ( cool )

    Lets just all talk about the problems, like the 24hr News . . .

    ( this countries challeges are Decades older than 5 weeks )

    This program is only 5 weeks old, dangit, I guess this is enough time to get it right, since there are "enough" good jobs and no massive layoffs, no credit pimps . . . and no unemployment, no massive foreclosures and ALL IS Perfect on the other side.


    Biff or Billy this private solution aint the solution for everyone, . . .


    -$2 donation (freely), to 3 possible strangers &
    donations forwarded in all steps are from donations received . . . ( not out of your pocket ). . .


    You mean to tell me,

    ( all this fuss )

    all boils down to,
    a one time donation of,
    $2 to 3 possible strangers,
    then donating out of the donations received,
    paying 44 cents to $1.00 to
    send a donation, instead of 44 cent to $29+.
    and being able track it all
    for a LIFETIME (one time fee)
    of less than $11
    and privately inviting 2
    who'll do the same. ( WOW )

    GEEPERS i'm scared LOL!

    Just because some people have received large donations does not prove that something is necessarily bad or good.

    Seek Solutions

  24. jeffrey Says:

    Wow, BA - now you have done it. All the people that have already drunk the Kool Aid are mad at you for pointing out the truth. BA is correct. This is a typical ponzi scheme and you want to stay far, far away. The title of the post should be 14 Eagles scam.

    My prediction is that BA is going to be spending a lot of time in this post refuting random people that have stopped by that would prefer you not know the truth. By far the best way to judge advice is to take a look from who it is coming from. Take a look back through BA's blog and you'll see high quality financial advice all the way through. As for the pro commenters with no way to tell who they really are or what hidden agenda they have, I would advise taking all their comments with a (very, very large) grain of salt

    As for me and my qualifications, I am only the person that runs this personal finance site Wink

  25. Tabs Says:

    Huh, thanks for your support, Jeffrey. It is very much appreciated. I have to wonder how you ended up here though. By chance or did someone complain about me? Big Grin

    Either way, this is nothing compared to that time when I talked about traffic tickets. Haha, now that was funny.

    GET-HONE-FACTS, the only thing I can say is that 14 Eagles isn't entirely driven by charity. Rather, it is driven by a pyramid scheme where money is "donated" upwards towards existing members, regardless of what their charitable "needs" are. That's just what it is....

    If you really want to help people, there are lots and lots of very good charities out there where your donated money will go to people truly in need. And if you are one of those in need of help, please look them up and ask them to help you!

    No matter how you guys spin this, a real charity organization gives to those who need it without expecting anything back, whereas 14 Eagles give only to privates members above them, and their incentive is the potential that you too can profit like them!

    A TINY SOLUTION, you're trying to cry foul about the relatively small amount of money involved, but as I've already stated, it's not the amount that matters. What matters is how it works, or in my eyes, does not work.

    Come on guys, this is very simple. I'm just one man. I'm just speaking my mind. If you guys are completely right about about all this, and I'm completely wrong, then why let little ole me bother you? Just ignore me and go about your money-making business.

  26. jeffrey Says:

    I have to wonder how you ended up here though. By chance or did someone complain about me?
    I received
    Text is a question about whether 14 eagles was a scam and Link is http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/investing-banking/54131-14-eagles-scam.html
    a question about whether 14 eagles was a scam Wink

  27. ezymoney54 Says:

    It never ceases to amaze me that the folks who really need an activity/opportunity like this are the ones that cause the most grief for themselves and everybody else! UNBELEIVABLE!

    I have been an Eaglet since June 13th and have had nothing but heartwarming experiences with 14 Eagles. Slowly, I have been successful and the gifts do come in the mail from other eaglets!

    I have been sharing this activity in my travels with my warm market friends and even the people standing in front of Wal-Mart and other stores with their hands out panhandling money from the public.

    I have taken the time and stopped and asked what the persons problem was that caused him to stand out in 95 DEGREE HEAT and beg for money!

    The two that I met told me that they would love to work but they were laid off from the housing market of fixing and repairing the insides of homes in this area.

    So what did I do? I offered to give him a $6.00 gift that he could either have the time of his life with or (as in life) he could make a choice and take the gift that I gave him (Paid It Forward) and bless three other people with it! It was his choice after I explained how 14 Eagles worked and was all about!

    The result was since he was out of work and had all the time in the world to share his new found activity with the rest of the unemployed he new, he had a new lease on life to be productive and is now helping bless more people with his new good fortune!

    In other words, I TAUGHT HIM HOW TO FISH instead of just giving him Money/GIFT so he can starve again in a few days!

    My question is, where are the employed people I meet everyday and why aren't they stopping to offer a solution on helping these people to be productive and do something with their lives?

    Play time is over folks! The world is changing rapidly (for the worst) and the goody goody negative people are becoming part of the problem instead of the solution!

    I also am working with an 83 year old friend of mine that just realized that he has come out of his depression since joining 14 Eagles a month ago and is now trying to make an impact on the seniors who might listen.

    Very few do though as they are in the (To Good to Be True) mode and are doomed to poverty because that is what they have been brainwashed into by our so called officials!

    Feed me! Feed me! I'm Hungry...is the main jest I have been observing along with all the local food pantries that are closing and thousands of people in the newspapers are saying "WE Don't Know What We Are Going To Do"!

    In my local newspaper a few days ago 100 families a day do not know what they are going to do when the local pantry goes out of business because there are not enough funds or volunteers to keep up with the growing demand of hungry people who are down on their luck or lazy not to try and do something for themselves! This activity would save every one of them if they would listen...but they won't!

    I want to throw up every time I get a response about the ponzi/pyramid thing from ignorant people and pastors that I meet also!
    They wouldn't know a real blessing if it walked up to them and tapped them on the shoulder!

    In their heads they are expecting hundreds and thousands of dollars from either old money inheritances from their aging members or flowing down from heaven to save their ever growing bankrupt churches!

    The church that backed out of an activity like this did not do their church or the future members any great service by bending and buring their heads in the sand!

    The biggest ponzi going now is the way our country is being run now and the public is buying it hook, line and sinker thinking the system will save them!

    The Big Boys Don’t Care! Get It?

    Enjoy Your Poverty Negatorians!

    P.S. Always Remember,
    Profits/Gifts are Better Than Wages Any Day!

  28. foxy Says:

    Well I am on the fence about this whole thing. I dont know who to believe. I mean its only six bucks, i spend that on a value meal. Why not give it a try. I just believe you have to know where to stop. And even if you dont recruit people, they give you people to send the money to. Then after you send the money to those three people. It comes back to you and you get your money and then they send you a couple of more people to send money to and so forth and so forth. It just seems to me that everything is recirculating. You can bring people in or you dont have to. You can get to 500 bucks and stop or you can get to 28 bucks and stop, anyway it goes you came out with more than what you put in. Plus you have there information so if you see your money aint coming, you can call and be like, whats up with the money? (lol) im just saying. I just spent three dollars just to eat a burger today....I might as well give this a try....

  29. kelly Says:

    I just have to say this. As far as a pyramid or a scam, I do not know,but what I do know is that husband was working for a very well known company and was laid off in October of last year with 8000 other employees. There was no question whether our children had food or if our mortgage would get paid, just after 15 years of dedicated service, he was laid off. The amazing part of this is, the CEO of the company gave himself an 11% raise right before the layoffs. Now he makes 22 million dollars per year. Now I know that in a pyramid the people make all of the money and the people on the bottom are the pee ons. I will say this as well. If it was not for an amazing MLM company and 14 eagles, my children would not have food in the fridge or a home to live in. Now if it was up to the CEO at the top of the corporate pyramid, we would all starve while he gets richer by the second.

  30. Tabs Says:

    I would like to respond to you, but your response, to be blunt, is filled with more of the same kind of incoherent rambling I've seen so far from the kinds of financially ignorant people that would drink a pyramid scheme kool-aid in the first place.

    I mean, have you truly taught another man how to fish? Not to me. You have only introduced him to a sort of con game to get other people to willingly hand fish over to him. That is not true fishing skills.

    foxy and kelly:
    Feel free to participate and to continue to participate in 14 eagles if you wish. Unlike many of the 14 Eagles supporters here, I'm not here to tell others what to do. I'm here to simply speak my mind, and very simply, I don't agree with such a program.

  31. ezymoney Says:

    And that my friend is why the country now has over 40 million people and growing on food stamps that never was before. Your type of thinking is part of the problem of why many do not try to better themselves in this now god forsaken economy.

    If I go get a job (Just Over Broke) flipping hamburgers will I ever advance and make more success for myself than the guy that hired me? No, but if I share an opportunity whether it is a gifting program or a MLM vitamin program, I have the potential to bring in more prosperity than the person that invited me to the activity. Makes sense to me to get rewarded for my personal efforts if I choose to share and WORK!

    That's why networking is not called net-sleeping-in or net-fooling-around and expecting riches to come ones way by doing NOTHING which is now common place here in the American culture.
    People have become spoiled, lazy and complacent.

    The worst is yet to come!

  32. Tabs Says:

    Well, I appreciate at least the attempt to debate this directly rather than throw straw mans and ad homs around.

    That said, I do not agree that this is the reason why we have high unemployment or poverty rate. People spent more than they can afford. That's the bottom. Doesn't matter if they're an entrepreneur, a 9 to 5 cubicle rat, or in a pyramid scheme.

    Also, I do not agree that 14 eagles is necessarily the solution to high unemployment or poverty. One can also get a job and work their way up, or start a business through legitimate avenues.

    In the end, it doesn't make sense to equate either doing 14 Eagles or doing literally nothing. We can all do SOMETHING to better ourselves. We should. But I would argue that 14 Eagles is NOT the only way, but more importantly, there are much better ones out there.

  33. cashndays Says:

    Folks this 14 eagles is still working and yet we can debate forever. This $6 donation got me a LOT OF MOOLA! I'm taking an extra vacation thanks to 14 Eagles.

  34. g2k2 Says:

    one simple question for broken arrow.did you gift $6 and follow all the steps given by the program with results that caused you to make everyone aware that this doesn't work..or is this your (highly intelligent gift of future telling mind) that knows the out-come of something that you have not done youself because of the flawed math you are using..flawed for THIS application because it does stop on every level at 14 gifts.For $6 dollars just try it and do all the steps.. come in under me g2k2 as your inviter so I can keep track of your progess(see if you really do it)if you don't get your gifts back I will personally return your $6 plus $6 100% return and also do like you and scream from the mountain top for no-one else to do this..point being if it works it does not matter the reason you gave your gift..give and you shall recieve...if it doesn,t you will have a loyal supporter...take the challenge

  35. pablo Says:

    jajajajaj all you are so funny i got on this the 28th and today the 29th i got 6 peoples that they need to pay me is working so far fukerrrrrrrsssss

  36. The Blessed Says:


    As I have been introduced to cash-gifting recently, I am intrigued with how different groups of people respond to it. There is a negative force & a positive force in all things. I have been astonished as to why certain people are so threatened by it. I have finally figured it out why a select group of people are actually “offended” by such good & charitable works…and yes…I said “charitable” because that’s exactly what it is.

    Sure, there may be those “gifting” who let the inherent nature of greed get the best of them; who may be more interested in “getting” than giving”. So what do you propose we do… stick probes to us cash-gifters to see who really has the best of intentions? Arrest those who actually feel delight when they receive the cash gifts? How absurd is this? Here is the simple fact: It is our natural, inherent, and moreover, we… “The People” have a Constitutional Right do certain things. We have the right to assemble together and to gift one another, and to do it lawfully! The mere fact that many cash-gifters are afraid to divulge their identity should scare ever freedom-loving citizen, even if you are a cash-gifting hater!

  37. The Blessed Says:

    After doing some research, I have been able to make a very interesting connection…a large number of these “nay-sayers” have one thing in common: they have an angry, malicious, and indignant nature about them. I also believe that there is a natural tendency to criticize something rather than to put in the time and effort to actually learn and understand it…so many here commenting on this board will just take the path of least resistance; they simply find it easier to jump on the “cash-gifting haters” bandwagon. Some commenting here are simply just ignorant on the issue and don’t have any interest in learning how cash-gifting works, even if they are given the opportunity to learn the real facts about it. Lastly, there are those here and all over the web that will attempt to make this a religious or spiritual issue, who paradoxically, will use the illogical argument that there is something morally wrong with gifting. Really? Gifting is the most Christian-like act that I can think of. It’s funny what people will pick & choose what is “righteous” or “unrighteous” to whichever way it supports their agenda. Why is there such a strong disdain towards the act? It couldn’t really be because the people are being “scammed”, contrary to what many nay-sayers want the uninformed to believe. I suppose you could lose the initial money that you freely gift out when you begin the conscious act of gifting to others in the same way that sometimes in life, you may not get the great gesture reciprocated back to you as you may have expected, from a loved one you’ve tried so hard to do good deeds for and make a mends with, for example. That’s life! It’s all about striving to be the kind of person YOU choose to be without any expectation of what you’ll get back. At least this is something any wise person will strive to become more like anyway…to become a naturally good and benevolent person, not a VICTIM! With respect to cash gifting, what it really comes down to is personal responsibility because there is never any reference to a “guarantee” that you will receive anything from gifting, at least in the cash-gifting communities I’ve been exposed to. Don’t let that fool you though; the motivation to “pay it forward” is definitely there or else this wouldn’t be as hot of an issue as it is and MLM’ers wouldn’t be so threatened by it. You either do it, or you don’t – it comes right down to personal choice, but by no means is a scam!!!

  38. The Blessed Says:

    Some people simply resent others who are successful at something when they are not, and they will do anything to tear you down (which under my belief system, is immoral itself). This is the negative force I am talking of. But here is something very interesting…many of the cynics who will so quickly jump on the “cash-gifting is illegal” bandwagon, I have quickly learned, are hard-core network marketers. Ironic you say? It is ironic because that is precisely what they do…invite others to participate. The only real two differences is 1) There is a strong sense of a self-serving motivation with most networking organizations, as opposed the self-LESS-ness inherent in cash-gifting communities…and 2) There is a product involved, either one that nobody wants or highly overpriced products that you can otherwise purchase at your local Wal-Mart (not to mention having to meet quotas and pay yearly/monthly “membership” fees). Just to illustrate how threatened these individuals are, check out the comments all over the MLMWatchdog website. These MLM’ers (and those they represent) shamelessly divulge their true innermost feelings about cash gifters: “WHY DOES THE MLM WATCHDOG HATE THESE? THEY STEAL GOOD PROSPECTS FROM YOUR LEGITIMATE MLM BUSINESS!”… Can someone identify the ASSUMPTION made in this statement, intended to deceive the uninformed? They will call themselves “legitimate” to make a sweeping generalization that ALL cash gifting communities are illegitimate. I’m sure there are some out there, but the ones that I have been exposed to are legitimate. They are simply people who personally choose to freely give to one another: People; not a company or place of business. That makes it Legal & Legitimate. Call it a ‘play on words’ or what you will, but it is both our LEGAL and our INDIVIDUAL right to give to one another...bottom line! These bitter MLM’ers hate that you can be successful at something that they cannot profit from and they hate that you may give the gift of success to another; someone whom they may have otherwise been able to recruit for their own self gain. AMAZING! No shame in it! They will try to instill fear in you to scare you and steer you away from participating in the most Charitable & Plentiful act out there, available to anybody who seeks for something better. They justify their “MLM Business” as being legitimate because they milk any financial reserves you might have left to purchase some overly-priced product (and a bunch of it). That way, WHEN you never make money at it (and I say WHEN because statistically, people don’t make money in MLMs; they spend money), you can justify being in the business because you would have had to buy it anyway, right? So this is legitimate? Especially at a time when people can barely afford a bottle of shampoo; let alone 20 bottles in a single month? I think most people can see through the smoke. Cash-gifting works & that is a threat to them!

  39. The Blessed Says:

    For all those who are reading these cash-gifting hater forums that are unsure about the issue: Don’t be fooled and please recognize that there is an agenda behind all of this hate-spouting and rage! The nay-sayers do not have your best interest at heart. They are trying to divide people (but they aren’t doing a very good job at it because I know many great people in my cash gifting community who also happen to be avid MLM’ers) and I’ll bet that the very people provoking all this hate mongering and anti-cash-gifting sentiment are probably those who are owners of an MLM or who are at the very top of the hierarchy of an MLM, all threatened to lose you as a “consumer”. Yes… I said “consumer”. Let’s be honest about it, MLMs are nothing more than recruiting more consumers for some particular product, or line of products. They will disguise you, “the consumer”, as an Independent Representative or some sort to make you feel special, as if you are actually going to make money selling their products. OK…I suppose the potential is there for all you lower-leg MLM people, but really… what is the probability? I mean, really…What is the probability that the average citizen will really gain financial freedom from an MLM, like the notorious company poster-child standing in front of his yacht did? And I mean, after you have to invest it all back into your “business” to meet your monthly quota? …Not many that I’ve meet. I have many close friends, family members, and even myself to know through experience, that the odds are certainly against you. I’ve learned over the years to Never say “Never”. I am not opposed to hearing about anything. Joining an MLM may just be a sensible thing to do if you happen to love the product. I am not opposing that you MLM’ers exercised your constitutional right to join an MLM, what I am opposing is your participation in trying to take away my right to join the community that I wish to join. Why are these MLM’ers so threatened? What should that tell us all? It clearly demonstrates that these “cash-gifting haters” do not have your best interest at heart. When someone does not have your best interest at heart, how can you REALLY trust that they are giving you factual advice? Here is the truth they don’t want you to know: Cash-Gifting Works!

    Wake Up America! This is a war not just against these inherently bitter, fruitless, unsuccessful MLM’ers. More importantly, this is a war on our constitutional rights. Both the MLM’ers & the IRS have one common interest: to scare & bully you into hiding and have a strong desire to infringe upon our god-given right to assemble together and help one another, but for dissimilar reasons, both of which is driven by GREED. The government/IRS: they want more money from you (in the form of taxes) because evidently they aren’t getting enough to fund their outright reckless spending and the UNPRECEDENTED fraudulent govt. expenditures that we witness today. These MLM’ers (or “cash-gifting haters”) are threatened because they want your business and do not want anything to stand in the way of that, even if it does mean that your life could be changed for the better. All you MLM’ers who’ve let your greed override your love of freedom aught to be ashamed of yourselves!

  40. The Blessed Says:

    Sure…you don’t think that there is a concern on behalf of all of us cash-gifters? The government would love to be able to stop us from exercising our constitutional right to gift one another. Why would they be in favor of it? They wouldn’t be in favor of it simply because it would mean less money running through “the system”. Is that a bad thing? I don’t know…ask yourselves that question: Do you trust that the government is going to spend your money wisely? I mean, in this presidency? I do know this…there are many fed-up Americans right now shocked at what has become of this once, great nation. How on God’s Green Earth did we get here?

    There are many scams out there, and perhaps even in the cash gifting realm, but here is the truth that you will hardly find anywhere else because yes…people are afraid to share their identity. There is no secret about that. Look at all the scare tactics these people use. Here is the truth: The large majority of those that participate in cash gifting are successful! I am witnessing it with my very own eyes, and I must make a confession…it is exciting (Is that “illegal” to feel excited about it?)! Many are afraid to share it in fear that their “door will get kicked in”, as the MLMWatchdog puts it (a little extreme, don’t you think?). Hey…Isn’t this how the days of Hitler began? First, they start small by instilling fear into people; when a particular group of citizens with an agenda co-mingle with the government with a commonly shared interest. Then, the natural rights of the people are infringed upon. This is a slippery slope that history has seen before. Even more frightening is that we currently have an American president who has relentlessly dismissed and outwardly defies The U.S. Constitution that is meant to protect us and our rights as U.S. citizens. People do what they must to survive. Ordinary, average people are struggling to feed their families and put a roof over their head right now. Perhaps you personally may not be in this dire position yet, but a vast number of Americans are in big, big trouble as of the date I write this. We have a president now with an unwavering determination, to kill the American economy (and if anybody thinks this is by accident, or for those of you who have drunken the coolade that It’s Bush’s Fault, you are kidding yourselves and need to wake up!). Gifting works! It’s helping many more people and would help even more people if more would take an unwavering stand about this and stand together to defend our most basic human rights. Hey… all you MLM’ers, people would love to buy your overpriced shampoo, or your vitamins, or your groceries if only they had the means to. But you know what? Meeting our family’s basic needs takes precedence. And this is what many families across the nation are down to now.

    When our founders founded this country, we didn’t have any “stimulus packages” and there were no divisive political community organizations to be heard of, like ACORN for example, which cater to helping a select group of people (which our tax dollars are funding by the way). Even our very own government… who is supposed to protect us and our futures, have lost the trust of most Americans now. People are literally scared and anxious about what is to come of our country. Many of these “cash-gifting haters” who paradoxically, will publicize their own Christian faith in an effort to steer you clear away from cash-gifting, will ridicule the fact that many cash-gifters openly and unapologetically declare their Christianity. These “cash-gifting haters” will mock them to make it appear to the uninformed that those Christian givers are “using” their faith as a means to enlist others. Perhaps. I can’t tell you what is inside the mind and heart of every person and neither can anybody else, but I can tell you this: Cash Gifting is the most Christian-Like act you can participate in! And I make no bones about that. I’ve learned more about myself and I have a newly-found awareness about my thoughts and feelings as I do give to others since my participation in cash-gifting. More than any one single thing I have gained through my participation, Personal Growth is at the top.

  41. The Blessed Says:

    I’ve only been cash-gifting for about 3 weeks and it literally has changed my life. My husband and I both lost our jobs two months ago. We had no idea how we were going to pay our bills this last month. We faced the dreadful fear that we might lose our home a 2nd time. Above all, since we have decided to join a cash gifting community, we have since been blessed with a sense of hope and peace that everything might just be ok. I am not here to solicit anyone. In fact, I feel no inclination to divulge which gifting community I involve myself with. It wouldn’t make any difference if I did. These “haters” are dead-set on detracting you away from it. You see…It wouldn’t matter what I disclose or not disclose. You cannot change the minds of determined ignorant-minded people. The reason I am posting this here, is to help the uninformed get the truth because there is a huge silent majority whose voices aren’t being heard enough. If anything, my voice here might just help someone in need think twice about joining this hateful bandwagon and it may just save another family from financial ruin as it had us. We have been so blessed in the short three weeks of our participation in gifting and I am ever grateful for it!

  42. Tabs Says:

    Wow. Welcome "blessed". Quite the sermon, but the length doesn't prove your case I don't think. Examine just even from the first post:

    No, I'm not hater. I just don't think it's a good idea. The fact that you think civil disagreement makes me a hater makes you the illogical and presumptuous one.

    No, I don't feel threatened. I don't know why simply disagreeing with someone automatically implies that I feel threatened. I mean, why would I feel that way? Doesn't makes sense.

    Mentioning references of probes, arrests, and the Constitution is being misleading with hyperbole. Come on, really?

    And why do you think detractors are angry, malicious, and have an indignant nature about them? Is it truly angry, malicious, and indignant to simply disagree? Did you really do true, scientific research on this? Big Grin If so, I'd like to see the white paper.

    Wow, and the diatribe just keeps going and going. It's kind of sad. After reading your comments, I don't see how you can make your case about this. But if you have any specific issue you'd like me to address, then let me know and I will do so.

    Thanks you for the offer. At least that seems a lot more reasonable of a response than your fellow supporters.

    But no, I must politely decline. I've already made the argument several times that just because something can work, it still doesn't mean it's a good idea.

    The basic premise, if I must repeat it yet again, is that for you to make back $6, someone else has to give up $6. And the source of that $6 is from the people below you, paying you. So for someone to have earned more than that, it means others below you have collectively lost that same amount. And for them to break even and even make a profit, it means that more people below them has to be recruited to give those below you.

    Bottom line, pyramid schemes are an unsustainable model.

    And yes, I did not get the details correct earlier on the math. That's because I was mistaken on the information I've received. However, it was only on the details, and such details don't invalid the whole premise, thought I realize that it only complicates my position on this since many supporters that don't want to hear what I think on this and will only use that to show how wrong I am.

    When it's all said and done though, I don't get why you guys are so fired up over this.

  43. The Blessed Says:

    Don’t misrepresent what I am saying here: I am by no means advocating that you ever defy your duty to pay your tax dues. I am simply saying this: that gifting one another is entirely our legal right. I feel that I must highlight this point because these cash-gifting haters would just love to misrepresent this fact run with it. What would be considered “illegal” is if you do not pay your tax dues on any “taxable income” and/or “taxable gifts”. If you are concerned about whether or not you are in good standing on your tax responsibilities, your tax advisor is the best person to consult with on the issue. What may also be considered “illegal” is if you are affiliated or working for a business establishment who operates business as an MLM, but without a product involved; who may even falsely represent themselves as “gifters”. A company/business establishment has a responsibility to either pay or report tax dues to the IRS, either through payroll deductions or issuing the workers a 1099. By definition, “Gifting” cannot be done through a corporation or business (I suppose they can be and if you see one…run far away! This is illegal!). When you freely gift a person, you are not issued a 1099 or receiving any payroll checks for your goodwill because you expect nothing in return. You very well could not receive anything back and that is the chance you take when you choose to join any gifting community. I do know this though…it works! And I can testify that it has blessed my life!

    Certainly do your homework about which cash gifting communities you choose to join if you choose to do so. I can’t speak for All the various cash-gifting communities out there, but I want to defend the notion that “only people at the very top benefit”; or those who have joined earlier vs. later. This is simply not true, at least with the particular community I involve myself with. No one person has a special unfair advantage over another. I have quickly learned that not all cash-gifting communities are the same. You must do your own research to really know that you are making the right step. Just as with anything else, there is the good and the bad to all things. There are great cash-gifting communities out there helping many people overcome their struggles, you’ve just got to search to find the right ones. If you don’t choose to participate in the most charitable, freedom-inspiring, and plentiful act that I’ve recently discovered, why then ruin it for everyone else? What is inside the hearts of these “cash-gifting haters” that would prompt them to divide people, to provoke such hatred and disdain towards others, many of whom are literally in “survival-mode” right now and just trying to feed their families? Whatever it is, it certainly isn’t “god-like”.

  44. The Blessed Says:

    BTW Broken Arrow...

    your comment that "just because something can work, it doesn't mean it's a good idea."...is probably the most unintelligent & foolish assertion I've ever heard. Frown
    Cash Gifting Works People! What works can change your life. Sometimes, it really is that simple.

  45. jeffrey Says:

    Wow - I am being accused of not having people's best interest at heart. Hmmm, let's see. I have donated over $13,000 worth of food to local food banks (pennyexperiment.com) in 2010 (with a goal of giving $1 million worth of food) as well as taught a large number of people how they can eat well on $1 a day (grocerycouponguide.com). I have not asked for a single penny when doing this. That certainly does sound like I am the type of person not out for anyone's interest but my own...What have you done with all this money you claim to be making?

    Now that you know that I am looking out for your interest, I still stand by my assertion that it is a scam.

  46. Tabs Says:

    Blessed, when did I ever say that you couldn't gift someone money? But you don't have to do that solely through a pyramid scheme. Everything else is stuff you're spouting over what you think and not what I said.

    Also, why is my comment the most unintelligent thing you've ever heard? Quite the contrary, I think the inability to grasp that concept is well, telling about someone's lack of intelligence....

    "Can work" means work for now, for a short while, despite being able to dodge the risks and the odds against it. It does happen. Whether people win the lottery or manage to get away with murder, it does happen!

    And yet, neither lotteries nor murder makes it a good idea even if you somehow make it work for you. This includes the very concept of pyramid schemes.

    Seriously now, this isn't that difficult is it?

  47. ezymoney54 Says:

    You Really Do Have "More" Broken Than Your Broken Arrow!

  48. jeffrey Says:

    Personal attacks - classic response used by those who are unable to argue on the facts

  49. Redfeathers Says:

    Short note for Bentarrow,use your blog to bring people into the program,including yourself,nothing to lose right,I think you will change your mind,maybe not,Six bucks is better than a poke in eye BentArrow.

  50. Tabs Says:

    Interesting! First non-derogatory comment for a while. Big Grin Welcome, Redfeathers.

    I've already explained this, but I guess I need to keep doing it: This is only a blog. I am only speaking my mind. As such, it is not my policy to tell people what I think others should or should not do with their money.

    If you wish to join 14 Eagles, by all means.

    If you wish to NOT join 14 Eagles, by all means.

    Let me say this again: This is only a blog. I am only speaking my mind.

    That said, yes, I will not join 14 Eagles. I've also already made my case several times over why I think it's a bad idea. Feel free to disagree of course, but because I think it's a bad idea, therefore, I will not join. That's all there is to it.

    But thank you for a fair-enough comment. Hope you have a nice day. Smile

  51. Tammy Says:

    I am going to post my original message that was left on the other Saving Advice forum that bashed 14 Eagles because I am being silenced. The fact that these guys keep removing my voice from their sister-forum tells me that they know they are losing this debate and losing it miserably, or I wouldn’t intimidate them so much. But this time, I am going to revise the message so as not to go against the “rules” of any forum and so you don’t confuse my “observation” of these college-going boys as “name-calling”; boys that seem to portray themselves as “uninformed” and with a high level of “ignorance” about the issues here.

    So, here it is (originally posted yesterday, Aug. 4th at 12pm but was deleted from the Saving Advice sister-forum because they are trying to silence the truth…

    This is a 2-sided debate - Let's hear BOTH SIDES:

    Broken Arrow (who also posts here),

    I would love to explain to you how it actually works. It would be much easier to simply say, "14 Eagles works, and here is why:"…, but it seems like many others (see above) have tried to help you understand. Sometimes in life, Broken Arrow, you can rationalize & debate the heck out of something to the point that nothing is there. Sometimes in life, you really won’t understand something by talking (or blogging) about it, but rather by actually experiencing it. Please don’t misunderstand me Broken Arrow; I am not trying to persuade you to join the community. I don’t understand why anyone would even invite you to the community. I sure don’t want you in mine. Please don’t take offense…I just don’t care for ignorant people, or the “un-teachable”. This is the easiest thing I’ve ever done to get people to want to join, so why would I waste my time on the un-teachable, you know? The reason I am on this board is surely not to convince the close-minded, but to help those who are trying to get factual information about it & to help them understand that they are looking in the wrong place if they are reading on this forum. You guys just don’t have any idea what you are talking about. Why is this the easiest thing I’ve ever done?...because all it takes is a measly $6 to see. In fact probably ½ the people I invite are skeptical and only try it because it is only $6, but then they begin to get excited as the begin to “see the light”, as opposed to many MLMs, where you get all hyped up and think your gonna make a million after attending some motivating seminar, but then all your left with is a closet full of shampoo & less $ in your wallet. The other ½ of the members I’ve invited actually come to me and ask me when they find out what I’m doing. So, surely, I’d be wasting my time trying to convince you of anything. Even if I had you convinced, I’m not so sure I’d invite you to my gifting community anyway because my community has an exciting, generous, and a humble energy to it that I want to protect & preserve. And I love it!!!

    Since your fellow college apprentice jpg7n16 would like to fiddle around with definitions, allow me to help you understand what "ignorant" actually means:

    From the Dictionary.com website: “Ignorant”

    1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
    2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
    3. Uninformed; unaware.
    4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

    Ignorance is not a great attribute to have. Ignorance; or a Lack of knowledge about an issue you choose to quarrel about is even worse. You might find it valuable for you two to learn a little humility. Do they teach that at your college? Oh, I don’t think they teach that at colleges. That’s a personal attribute you’ve got to gain somewhere else. Search, and ye will find. There are many great communities out there that can help you grow in this particular area. I’m afraid you won’t get that from any book, or debate.

    These guys either don’t know what a pyramid scheme is or don’t know anything about The 14 Eagles community (ie, ignorance). Of course, it might be easy to jump to that conclusion because if you look at the members who’ve EXCERSIZED THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to assemble together to help one another on paper (or in a matrix form), it might resemble a pyramid. Oh, the simple-minded.

    For all those trying to understand it, I understand your trying to do the right thing, but goodness gracious… For all the time you spend on this board, trying to get information from these ignorant folks who have no idea what they are talking about, you could have made that $6 100X over and then you would have known for yourself a long time ago. I always encourage those seeking to know to do your own homework. If you can’t take the time to do that, than maybe this isn’t the thing for you. If you were invited, take the time to READ, study, and understand any literature you may have been provided with before coming here to the land of the miserable. You’ll get a lot more factual information by spending your time that way.

    The administrator of the Saving Advice website who calls himself Mr. “Disney Steve” alongside many other identities I’m sure, keeps removing my posts because they don't want you, a person trying to learn more information about this great community, to get the real facts. What should that tell us all? This is a one-sided argument here & you are looking in the WRONG place to get real, factual information about gifting! If they don’t like it, they’ll remove your posts. And even worse, LOOK: perhaps “The Blessed” on the other forum makes a good point that our god-given constitutional rights are under siege here and that is truly what is at the heart of this issue here that is being provoked from all those with such disdain towards those that choose to participate in gifting. Everyone should open their eyes and see what is REALLY going on here. All these people can do is try to scare you and instill fear in you to steer you away from the most benevolent, plentiful, Christian-inspired, and patriotic act available to anyone who seeks for something better. Well, here it is America… look at the above post this morning (on their siser-forum) from Mr. “GrimJack” (unless he deleted that too after perhaps realizing that the statement doesn’t help his argument)…he is “dropping a dime with the FBI using what info he can about me” to turn me in for exercising my constitutional right to assemble with a community of people to share with one another. These people continually expose themselves and their real intentions with every post they make! You think this is about having your best interest at heart? Even more frightening is that we currently have an American President determined to defy the U.S. Constitution, meant to protect us and our rights as U.S. citizens, who just delights in little uninformed, ignorant & ever-so-shallow “college-goers” who just don’t know any better; who are willing stoop to a New Low to “turn you in”, an ordinary citizen just trying to survive & find a way to feed your children in this deliberately-killed economy (& if you think this is by accident or if you have drunken the Kool-Aid that It’s Bushes Fault, you are kidding yourselves and need to WAKE UP as to what is happening to this country of ours). This is A NEW LOW that I really didn’t think I’d actually witness on any of these forums, but HERE IS IT EVERYONE TO SEE! HERE IT IS!...Let’s see if he deletes this too? Hmmmmmm.

    I am a proud American. I know my constitutional rights, and Mr. “GrimJack”…you don’t scare me…you only make my faith and resolve stronger.

    So… now, it’ll be interesting to see if it is TRULY about the “rules” as to why these guys are trying to silence me & keep DELETING my contributions to this forum, or if they simply want to silence me because they are trying to hide the truth from all of you seeking to know about the greatness of The 14 Eagles community.

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